Anyone fitting an UltraHook to their winch?

Tinki · Apr 25, 2023

The 250mm is what is used to anchor the rope to the drum . Is the tail after the first pass through the plasma lock . From the moment the rope goes through the plasmalock you have a usable 1775cm of rope ( if the rope is 18m ) the 25cm is tax to the gods of friction

thats how i think about it .

The rope itself is indeed 18m but you can only use 17.75 of it . There is no way you can anchor a rope so you can use all of the rope .
All winches get their rating with a full roll of rope on the drum .

emax · Apr 25, 2023

The video shows the inner end of the rope being wrapped around the drum. But @ECrider asks about the outer end, which is not retracted. And so do I: what does that have to do with the last 25 cm that remains on the outside?

Tinki · Apr 25, 2023

My bad , i had a brain fart .
So the last 250 i presume ( correct me
If i am wrong ) will essentially be on the side of the plasma lock . Because the plasma lock will cause that side of the drum to be thicker , due to the tightness of the space if you fully wind the rope in will cause the rope to jam between the outer casing of the winch . That is the reason you cannot wind the last 250 .

ECrider · Apr 25, 2023

Tinki said:
The 250mm is what is used to anchor the rope to the drum . Is the tail after the first pass through the plasma lock . From the moment the rope goes through the plasmalock you have a usable 1775cm of rope ( if the rope is 18m ) the 25cm is tax to the gods of friction thats how i think about it .
The rope itself is indeed 18m but you can only use 17.75 of it . There is no way you can anchor a rope so you can use all of the rope .
All winches get their rating with a full roll of rope on the drum .

As per emax above - asking about the excess tail left at the outer end. 25cms on the inner end, that can't be right because you need about 8x the circumference of the drum to lock it in place, you are probably talking 150cms plus to lock it in place. The tail at the inner end after locking is probably 5-10cms??

I may need a few wines to think about this some more

ECrider · Apr 25, 2023

Tinki said:
My bad , i had a brain fart .
So the last 250 i presume ( correct me
If i am wrong ) will essentially be on the side of the plasma lock . Because the plasma lock will cause that side of the drum to be thicker , due to the tightness of the space if you fully wind the rope in will cause the rope to jam between the outer casing of the winch . That is the reason you cannot wind the last 250 .

my last crossed with yours above. I'm not sure that's right either though, wouldn't you just spool on intake back and forth as normal, the drum doesn't have a fat or thin part anymore than it would do without the lock. 25cms still doesn't fit with the logic of the plasma lock in my book, must be another reason.

Tinki · Apr 25, 2023

not sure guys i am running out of ideas. Or it could be as simple as the fact that the form factor of the winch simply has no more space for the last 250 .

I still think that the added thickness of the plasma lock is the most likely reason.

emax · Apr 25, 2023

Tinki said:
the winch simply has no more space for the last 250 (mm)

My guess.

My addition.

DCPU · Apr 25, 2023

The drum has been designed to take "x" turns of rope, due to wanting to max the length of rope available on such a small drum there simply isn't the additional headroom with the tie rods to take the last 25cm of rope, which is actually double thickness due to the buried end of the loop.

ECrider · Apr 25, 2023

DCPU said:
The drum has been designed to take "x" turns of rope, due to wanting to max the length of rope available on such a small drum there simply isn't the additional headroom with the tie rods to take the last 25cm of rope, which is actually double thickness due to the buried end of the loop.

aaah so it's a mixture of run out of room plus thicker part of the splice.

IG_in_AZ · Apr 25, 2023

So the Grenny will just run around with it's tongue hanging out.

bemax · Apr 25, 2023

IG_in_AZ said:
So the Grenny will just run around with it's tongue hanging out.

Why do I have to think about this clip?

View: https://youtu.be/Fsb82OHRyqs

AnD3rew · Apr 25, 2023

This is a very interesting development. So basically none of the commercially available winch rope ends that sit flat against the fairlead are going to work on the Grenadier winch. Must first reaction was that if there isn’t room for the last 250mm then cut it off and splice a new loop, but after reading the discussion above I think the most liked reason is not room on the drum, but that the thickness of the spliced rope wont go through the fairlead for some reason. This is not ideal because winch ropes deteriorate over time when exposed to the sun and weather and bugs etc when left hanging out of the fairlead. Will have to think about this a bit.

TheDocAUS · Apr 25, 2023

Tinki said:
View: https://youtu.be/2m-qcEPnXaQ

The most probable reason why you cannot use the last 250mm . This is the best and most used way to attach the rope on the drum ( when talking about synthetic )

We do not need to guess as Neil from Red Winch told me (see full quote above) he said:

I also need to point out that the Grenadier rope has a stop label 250mm from the end. The last 250mm of rope must not be wound onto the drum as this can cause overloading of rope on the drum.

globalgregors · Apr 26, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
We do not need to guess as Neil from Red Winch told me (see full quote above):

So three thoughts:

“CAN cause overloading“ - e.g not ”will”. So needs must experiment and proceed with caution. Perhaps it fits but only if carefully wound. Seems likely otherwise why would it not be shorter as standard?
“overloading” - e.g then a choice. Reduce the load (shorten by 25cm) and be confident that line is sound (albeit shorter) on the day you need it; or leave it hanging out and have the extra length, and hope the exposed line has not been compromised by UV and other exposure.
Carrying a winch extension rope (and a second recovery ring, for a Spanish Burton rig) seems prudent as the line is not particularly long to start off with. With that available, 25cm less length in the winch line seems inconsequential.

edit: or, in the event of diameter being the issue, sleeving the exposed line.

One more bit of tinkering to add to the list.

TheDocAUS · Apr 26, 2023

I will follow the expert's advice and have a margin of safety.

Steve.B · Apr 26, 2023

25 cm is totally insignificant, if it is that close I will be shortening mine by a couple of metres, the bigger difference is how neatly and tightly you wind the rope back on the drum after use, because I will be using a bit of sawn of broomstick to stop the rope pulling through.
And no factor 55 or ultrahook BS.

frankkk · Apr 26, 2023

Here is a good demo, what a winch blankets does..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPba-34ARZY

Not a bad idea to have one, apparently..

DCPU · Apr 26, 2023

ECrider said:
aaah so it's a mixture of run out of room plus thicker part of the splice.

Just my guess...

DCPU · Apr 26, 2023

IG_in_AZ said:
So the Grenny will just run around with it's tongue hanging out.View attachment 7809420

Which actually looks better (and better protected) with the UK cover.

DCPU · Apr 26, 2023

AnD3rew said:
I think the most liked reason is not room on the drum, but that the thickness of the spliced rope wont go through the fairlead for some reason.

The man from Red Winches disagrees: "I also need to point out that the Grenadier rope has a stop label 250mm from the end. The last 250mm of rope must not be wound onto the drum as this can cause overloading of rope on the drum."

If you want to snug the end of the winch rope to the fairlead, you could always reduce the turns on the drum by one.

Someone can do the actual calculation, but on the back of a fag packet, if the final layer has a diameter of 15cm, then a wrap = 47.1cm. If the drum has 13 wraps per layer, then that's a total of 6.12m of rope. Quite a lot to lose (or gain) on a total length of 14m.

Interestingly, the original photos of the winch didn't show this as being an "issue":

But this does show better why there is the warning/requirement being described:

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Anyone fitting an UltraHook to their winch?

Tinki

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Global Grenadiers #1372

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Inch deep and a mile wide.

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