Europe Communication is ZERO! Does anyone know what is going on? (INEOS Automotive)

Luddite · Apr 11, 2023

DCPU said:
Have you tried telling them you are cancelling under this clause:

"6.4 The Customer may terminate this Agreement within 14 days of being notified of a price increase by INEOS, in which case it will receive a full refund of the Deposit paid."

Their email "UK Vehicles Tax Update" [dated in my case 6th April 2023] counts as a price increase.

That would qualify as a price increase by HMRC, not by Ineos.

JOB · Apr 11, 2023

Luddite said:
That would qualify as a price increase by HMRC, not by Ineos.

But it doesn't specify within the clause that this matters. A price increase is a price increase all the same.

Luddite · Apr 11, 2023

JOB said:
But it doesn't specify within the clause that this matters. A price increase is a price increase all the same.

"Not if it's a tax increase" will be the get out clause on that situation.

JOB · Apr 11, 2023

Luddite said:
"Not if it's a tax increase" will be the get out clause on that situation.

"But where does it say that in the contract" would be my response - I haven't checked that it doesn't say that; I'm merely playing devil's advocate.

Michael H. · Apr 11, 2023

JOB said:
"But where does it say that in the contract" would be my response - I haven't checked that it doesn't say that; I'm merely playing devil's advocate.

Not sure if this is relevant here …

muxmax · Apr 11, 2023

Michael H. said:
Not sure if this is relevant here …

View attachment 7808172

To my understanding, the recent tax raise concerns the owning of a car rather than the purchase price, correct? I read No. 6.1 to refer to any tax added on the (net) purchase price and thus leading to a (gross) price increase in the event of a tax raise. A tax only affecting the ownership but not the purchase would not fall under 6.1 then.

DCPU · Apr 11, 2023

Luddite said:
"Not if it's a tax increase" will be the get out clause on that situation.

Happy to have an online discussion but you really need to read and quote the contract.

@JOB has put the point correctly. It's another example of the contract being poorly written, but in the customer's favour this time. It's an increase, it's called an increase in the email and the contractual clause makes no reference to or distinction between, the cause(s) of the increase to the Purchase Price.

DCPU · Apr 11, 2023

muxmax said:
To my understanding, the recent tax raise concerns the owning of a car rather than the purchase price, correct? I read No. 6.1 to refer to any tax added on the (net) purchase price and thus leading to a (gross) price increase in the event of a tax raise. A tax only affecting the ownership but not the purchase would not fall under 6.1 then.

No.

This clause makes clear that the statutory and other charges are part of the Purchase Price:

"5.2 The Purchase Price of the Vehicle is exclusive of taxes with the exception of the statutory and other charges set out in the Contract Particulars."

Wilaspira · Apr 11, 2023

I am not a practicing lawyer so do not rely on this but the Consumer Contract Regulations (CCR) as they relate to distance selling I think are relevant. Nb the UK contract specifically refers to this and I believe, certainly for the early orders where one has dealt directly with Ineos, the Ineos order system falls under the CCR regime. The CCR allows a purchaser who has bought on the basis of distance selling to have a change of mind at any time from point of order until 14 days post delivery of the item purchased. In such circumstances of a change of mind one is entitled to the return of all monies paid including the deposit, subject to some usage adjustment if delivery of the vehicle has been taken. There is wording in the contract indicating (I believe correctly) that ‘bespoke’ specifications take one out of the usual consumer protections. The important point is that I understand the meaning of ‘bespoke’ in this context is/would be narrowly interpreted by the courts ie if one has merely chosen options from the manufacturers specified/usual list of alternatives this does not make an order ’bespoke’. To be ‘bespoke‘ for the CCR would require specifications out of the ordinary making the item (or in this case vehicle) effectively unsellable to any one else other than the person who ordered (eg if in say a special finish Lime Green paint and/or with purple snake skin seats etc)

Tom D · Apr 11, 2023

Given that no UK contracts have been sent out for quite a long time its likely that they are re-drafting it again…

bemax · Apr 11, 2023

Just as a side note I got the information today that there has been a supplier (I would estimate for the brake lines) who raised his hand because the delivered quality/tolerance/… hasn’t been good enough.
Unfortunately the company went in insolvency right away…
So there had to be found a new supplier within short notice.
Maybe someone her can find out who was the original manufacturer and whether it went really into insolvency.
It would for sure explain some of the delay!

Wilaspira · Apr 11, 2023

Tom D said:
Given that no UK contracts have been sent out for quite a long time its likely that they are re-drafting it again…

That could well be true

DCPU · Apr 11, 2023

bemax said:
Just as a side note I got the information today that there has been a supplier (I would estimate for the brake lines) who raised his hand because the delivered quality/tolerance/… hasn’t been good enough.
Unfortunately the company went in insolvency right away…
So there had to be found a new supplier within short notice.
Maybe someone her can find out who was the original manufacturer and whether it went really into insolvency.
It would for sure explain some of the delay!

Pretty sure that's not Goodridge - the brake hose supplier. Firstly, not seen any news about them having financial issues; and secondly there was both talk and photos of the issue with them being installation issues, effectively overtightening and twisting the hoses.

It would be a lengthy exercise to run down all the current known suppliers and see who pops up with financial issues; but it could equally be a smaller supplier as yet unknown publically.

Hannes01 · Apr 11, 2023

I can't imagine that goodride (the manufacturer of the brake lines) went bankrupt!

JohnHeagney · Apr 11, 2023

No chance of it being Goodridge in trouble, they are strong!

DCPU · Apr 12, 2023

bemax said:
Just as a side note I got the information today that there has been a supplier (I would estimate for the brake lines) who raised his hand because the delivered quality/tolerance/… hasn’t been good enough.
Unfortunately the company went in insolvency right away…
So there had to be found a new supplier within short notice.
Maybe someone her can find out who was the original manufacturer and whether it went really into insolvency.
It would for sure explain some of the delay!

Well here's the first company I've located that Ineos were dealing with that went into insolvency:

Ineos listed them as supplying "brake pedal box".

Company was later bought out of administration but that might have been too late for Ineos to continue supply:

Arlington rescue deal saves 110 Coventry jobs

Company which was placed into administration last year has been bought out by a former executive

www.business-live.co.uk

trobex · Apr 12, 2023

I have come to the conclusion that 'we' all of us will only get status information from our dealer network and likely nothing much at all from IA. Aussie dealers seem to be doing a good job.

marko · Apr 12, 2023

trobex said:
I have come to the conclusion that 'we' all of us will only get status information from our dealer network and likely nothing much at all from IA. Aussie dealers seem to be doing a good job.

Agreed, unlikely IA are going to change approach now. Can only vouch for my dealer in UK but they’ve been very good throughout this rather tortuous process.

AnD3rew · Apr 12, 2023

trobex said:
I have come to the conclusion that 'we' all of us will only get status information from our dealer network and likely nothing much at all from IA. Aussie dealers seem to be doing a good job.

Yep

bemax · Apr 12, 2023

DCPU said:
Well here's the first company I've located that Ineos were dealing with that went into insolvency:

View attachment 7808262

Ineos listed them as supplying "brake pedal box".

Company was later bought out of administration but that might have been too late for Ineos to continue supply:

Arlington rescue deal saves 110 Coventry jobs

Company which was placed into administration last year has been bought out by a former executive

www.business-live.co.uk

Thanks for finding out!

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Europe Communication is ZERO! Does anyone know what is going on? (INEOS Automotive)

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Arlington rescue deal saves 110 Coventry jobs

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