Europe Communication is ZERO! Does anyone know what is going on? (INEOS Automotive)

DCPU · Mar 27, 2023

Some interesting stuff on that Swiss site.

acwiltshire · Mar 27, 2023

Tom D said:
What reason did your dealer give for not releasing the car to you? It seems like there are a number of stories doing the rounds.

The PDI was done just waiting for software

AnD3rew · Mar 27, 2023

Krabby said:
Has IA officially said it was anything other than the software? There's lots of speculation about steering stuff, but I didn't think anything was directly linked to IA.

I don’t think IA have even said software. I think the only official reason given was additional quality checks

Steveo · Mar 27, 2023

AnD3rew said:
I don’t think IA have even said software. I think the only official reason given was additional quality checks

but agents who have been asked seem to consistently reply "software update" (among other things)

Leapoffaith · Mar 27, 2023

For what it’s worth I had a call with the manager of my dealership today. He said that they only got the software update to work on all cars last week (before that it had worked on some but not all) He said delivery of customer vehicles from the start to mid April. Seemed plausible!
Mine still only a chassis number even though I ordered first day, must be too many bits missing from the French factory bins, or I wanted too many extras

We live in hope that the beginning of the end is nigh!
Cheers all

grenadierboy · Mar 28, 2023

Agree.
Head of IA Asia/Pacific told me directly in late Feb that the batch & hold was due to both software update issues and minor changes to some parts.

He said the software issue had “pretty much been resolved” but updated OEM part deliveries were still an issue.

And no- he did not want to indicate the some number of parts that require re-working.

DCPU · Mar 28, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
So, e9 = Spain?
And first "M1" vehicle registered on March 22?
Could this be the reason that they couldn't deliver a customer vehicle yet? (besides the software update)

e9 = Spain, yes.

Revised type approval for both N1 & M1 vehicle variants was issued on 22nd March 2023 (I've corrected a typo that said 2022).

So my reading is whatever they've been changing in the vehicles has been significant enough that they've had to go back to the type approval process and get revisions/extensions granted. The latest one only being issued last Wednesday.

Without correct type approval no vehicle could be sold.

For the UK it will be different.

For Northern Ireland it will be based on the EU approval but will have an n11* prefix.

For GB (assuming it's met the cut-off date for the Provisional GB Type Approval Scheme) it will have an p9* prefix.

All just my reading of various convoluted and complex bits of legislation and guidance notes.

DenisM · Mar 28, 2023

On behalf of us all... @DCPU I thank you profusely!

Rok_Dr · Mar 28, 2023

DCPU said:
e9 = Spain, yes.

Revised type approval for both N1 & M1 vehicle variants was issued on 22nd March 2023 (I've corrected a typo that said 2022).

So my reading is whatever they've been changing in the vehicles has been significant enough that they've had to go back to the type approval process and get revisions/extensions granted. The latest one only being issued last Wednesday.

Without correct type approval no vehicle could be sold.

For the UK it will be different.

For Northern Ireland it will be based on the EU approval but will have an n11* prefix.

For GB (assuming it's met the cut-off date for the Provisional GB Type Approval Scheme) it will have an p9* prefix.

All just my reading of various convoluted and complex bits of legislation and guidance notes.

One hopes that Australian compliance approvals are all sorted

DCPU · Mar 28, 2023

Rok_Dr said:
One hopes that Australian compliance approvals are all sorted

It's hard to see how they would be sorted any quicker than the EU ones, especially given the distances involved if it's anything other than a desktop exercise?

JOB · Mar 28, 2023

DCPU said:
e9 = Spain, yes.

Revised type approval for both N1 & M1 vehicle variants was issued on 22nd March 2023 (I've corrected a typo that said 2022).

So my reading is whatever they've been changing in the vehicles has been significant enough that they've had to go back to the type approval process and get revisions/extensions granted. The latest one only being issued last Wednesday.

Without correct type approval no vehicle could be sold.

For the UK it will be different.

For Northern Ireland it will be based on the EU approval but will have an n11* prefix.

For GB (assuming it's met the cut-off date for the Provisional GB Type Approval Scheme) it will have an p9* prefix.

All just my reading of various convoluted and complex bits of legislation and guidance notes.

@DCPU Excellent work, you have gone a long way to uncovering the real reason for the delay, which is probably as we suspected for a long time: It's the polyester trousers and working from home brigade and their 'compliance' mandates!

DCPU · Mar 28, 2023

I found this website quite illuminating with regard to type approvals, revisions vs extensions:

https://www.eurococ.eu/en/blog/vehicle-type-approval/#:~:text=The%20type%20approval%20number%20is%20normally%20displayed%20on%20the%20manufacturer's,after%20the%20extension%20was%20approved.

Particularly this section:

"The type approval number is normally displayed on the manufacturer’s statutory plate without the extension number."

"The type approval may be extended up to 99 times, but the extension number shall only ever be given for vehicles that were manufactured after the extension was approved. For existing, already manufactured vehicles, no information relating to the data with which the vehicle was manufactured may be changed. This means that even the extension number (supplement) is never changed for a manufactured vehicle."

Effectively, Ineos looks to be "re-manufacturing" existing vehicles to the current extension number. It might be wise for early adopters to check the certificate of conformity (COC) for their vehicle to see if this is the case or not.

Rok_Dr · Mar 28, 2023

DCPU said:
It's hard to see how they would be sorted any quicker than the EU ones, especially given the distances involved if it's anything other than a desktop exercise?

A good question @DCPU. Australia does piggy back off some overseas standards, but our Australian design rule (ADR) compliance approval process has a lot of unique requirements.

However Ineos increased the GVM by 50kg to 3550kg for Australia, which has resulted in the the Grenadier now being classified as medium goods vehicle (NB) here, rather than a light goods (NA) or off road passenger vehicle (MC). As. result it only has to meet a less stringent set of ADRs and is no longer is subject to our luxury car tax, saving the buyer around $10k.

Toyota also did the same thing soon after Ineos with the 70 series Land Cruiser, but only upped the gvm by 10kg to 3510kg.

Link to the current ADR definitions and vehicle categories https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C01069

Cheers
Steve

Tazzieman · Mar 28, 2023

DCPU said:
Effectively, Ineos looks to be "re-manufacturing" existing vehicles to the current extension number. It might be wise for early adopters to check the certificate of conformity (COC) for their vehicle to see if this is the case or not.

Make sure nobody has COCked it up?

grenadierboy · Mar 28, 2023

Rok_Dr said:
A good question @DCPU. Australia does piggy back off some overseas standards, but our Australian design rule (ADR) compliance approval process has a lot of unique requirements.

However Ineos increased the GVM by 50kg to 3550kg for Australia, which has resulted in the the Grenadier now being classified as medium goods vehicle (NB) here, rather than a light goods (NA) or off road passenger vehicle (MC). As. result it only has to meet a less stringent set of ADRs and is no longer is subject to our luxury car tax, saving the buyer around $10k.

Toyota also did the same thing soon after Ineos with the 70 series Land Cruiser, but only upped the gvm by 10kg to 3510kg.

Link to the current ADR definitions and vehicle categories https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C01069

Cheers
Steve

Downside - can't get a novated lease on a Grenadier (due to light commerical status)

DCPU · Mar 28, 2023

Rok_Dr said:
A good question @DCPU. Australia does piggy back off some overseas standards, but our Australian design rule (ADR) compliance approval process has a lot of unique requirements.

I guess it may depend more on the change process and how whatever changes have been made are viewed.

Reading more around the EU process, it seems there's 3 levels of change:

1. Revision ~ where revised pages can be incorporated into the information package that makes up the Type Approval;

2. Extension ~ where in addition to 1. further inspections or fresh tests are required;

3. New Type Approval required ~ where deemed necessary.

Rok_Dr · Mar 28, 2023

grenadierboy said:
Downside - can't get a novated lease on a Grenadier (due to light commerical status)

That’s something I never knew, probably because I’ve never used that option as the financial case never added up for me.

Barney · Mar 28, 2023

New email from Lynn arrived 17:34 today:

We want to get better

Hello B.

we are currently experiencing one of the most difficult supply chain times in recent memory. So most of you probably already knew that building the Grenadier in this environment would be challenging.

Although we were able to overcome many hurdles through a systematic approach, we unfortunately did not always manage to keep you, our valued customer, up to date. We sincerely apologize for this.

Sometimes it was difficult to be as precise as we would like to be. We neither want to promise too much nor fall short of expectations. But now there is good news from Hambach. Vehicles are currently on their way to our dealers and customers. We expect more vehicles in the coming weeks. We are working flat out to send our vehicles to you from France and are doing everything we can to bring the delivery dates forward.

But the situation of our customers is very individual. This makes it difficult to put together all the information relevant to you in a circular email.

Therefore, in the coming weeks we will work with the support of our partners to make our communication more individual and personal, because we would like to inform you as much as possible about all the news.

As I said last month, we're really close to delivering your grenadier. Please believe me that just like our customers, I can't wait to see the Grenadier on the road and get your feedback. I'm really sorry for the wait.

In the meantime we have put together as much information as possible for you - in the form of answers to the most frequently asked questions that we are currently receiving.

Lynn Calder,
CEO, INEOS Automotive

Barney · Mar 28, 2023

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE GRENADIER

Question 1. What is the current estimated timeline for vehicle delivery?

In the next two weeks we will deliver 150 vehicles to our sales partner. Deliveries to customers will follow immediately afterwards. We continue to optimize the quality processes and the timing of our production. For this reason we cannot write an exact delivery date in your contract.

Question 2. What is the reason for the delay in handing over the vehicle? I heard there are quality issues.

There are no quality problems. On the contrary: the first series vehicles even exceed our expectations. Due to delays in the delivery of some components and a late software update, finished vehicles are backed up at the end of our assembly line. We are currently working on a solution to release the first vehicles for delivery to our sales partner. Right now, we want to make sure every Grenadier - and every component - meets our quality standards. That's why every vehicle goes through a rigorous testing process at the end of the production line that goes beyond the usual level. That slowed us down a bit, but we're going to get back to our planned pace as soon as possible.

Question 3. How do I get my contract?

If you are located in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Austria or South Africa, you will receive an email through DocuSign requesting an eSignature for your sales contract. You will receive a copy for your own records.

If you live in another region, your dealer WILL contact you a few days before your vehicle goes into production. You will then discuss a suitable date for signing the purchase contract and can clarify all your questions.

DCPU · Apr 5, 2023

DCPU said:
Type approval certificate number 11384.

I can see three versions or iterations of it:
00 issued 30th August 2022 for N1
01 issued 25th October 2022 for N1
01 issued 7th November 2022 for N1(?)
02 issued 22nd March 2023 for both N1 & M1

So just tidying up the apparent anomaly with two dates given for the 01 extension for N1 type approval in the earlier post from the NorType project.

I contacted the Icelandic Transport Authority (ICETRA) in Iceland, and got the following reply:

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Europe Communication is ZERO! Does anyone know what is going on? (INEOS Automotive)

DCPU

acwiltshire

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.

Steveo

Global Grenadier #1009

Leapoffaith

grenadierboy

DCPU

DenisM

Rok_Dr

DCPU

JOB

DCPU

Rok_Dr

Tazzieman

grenadierboy

DCPU

Rok_Dr

Barney

Barney

DCPU

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