Europe France : body type ?

Traveling Marvin · Jan 20, 2023

Sorry, this might be a very specific question, but my dealer could not answer this.
In France basically all Grenadier are sold as utility vehicles due to the ridiculous tax.

Does anyone know (or know how to look this up) what the body type of the Station Wagon (J.1 = VP, J.3 = ??) will be ?
Is it BREAK as with the similar shaped Defender ?

Any help welcome…

T.M.

Jean Mercier · Jan 20, 2023

Perhaps @Largo Winch can answer this?

Bienvenu au forum!

Mr. Largo WINCH · Jan 21, 2023

Bonjour

Le DEFENDER 110 7 places est en J3 Fourgon sur la "carte grise"

Traveling Marvin · Jan 21, 2023

Thanks for the reply….. yes from 2012 onwards, the Defender was classified as a Camionette in France (due to the emission Euro 4).
Therefore it was J.1 "CTTE" and J.3 FOURGON

And this is how most Grenadier will be sold in Frace.
But before 2012, the Defender was at Station Wagon VP as BREAK. Here my carte grise for a TD4 2.4 Puma.

So for the Grenadier STATION WAGON (yes, the one with the high tax), the specifications states "VP" - thats why we have the high tax.
I really would need to know the J.3 in addition.

Again, any help appreciated.

T.M.

frankkk · Jan 21, 2023

How about "MIXTO ADAPTABLE" for J.3 ?

You can get that changed afterwards, i.e. after the vehicle has been registered in a different class. Done that before on a TLC. It's a bit of a tricky procedure, involving lots of paperwork and several visits to inspectors and to a friendly lady at the prefecture, but it can be done. Unfortunately am no longer living in France and can't really expand on that, but sure there are registration experts in the 4x4 community there..? Your dealer should be able to help, if not, visit the local cafe, where the "chasseurs" meet, to enquire about the specialists. Or do it yourself, which I did a few years ago, it took about 30 hrs. of my time and 3 months in total, from what I recall..

. French bureaucracy.

frankkk · Jan 21, 2023

frankkk said:
How about "MIXTO ADAPTABLE" for J.3 ?

You can get that changed afterwards, i.e. after the vehicle has been registered in a different class. Done that before on a TLC. It's a bit of a tricky procedure, involving lots of paperwork and several visits to inspectors and to a friendly lady at the prefecture, but it can be done. Unfortunately am no longer living in France and can't really expand on that, but sure there are registration experts in the 4x4 community there..? Your dealer should be able to help, if not, visit the local cafe, where the "chasseurs" meet, to enquire about the specialists. Or do it yourself, which I did a few years ago, it took about 30 hrs. of my time and 3 months in total, from what I recall... French bureaucracy.

Now...you made me think again about the registration in France. The main requirements for the MIXTO ADAPTABLE were:

Cargo area larger than passenger compartment, no physical separation required, glass in the back no problem. On the SWB TLC that was achieved by removing the 2/3 part of the rear seat, the 1/3 could stay in place, 3 seats were registered. I guess on a LWB you could leave the 2/3 or even the whole lot, need to measure that with the inspector...who was down South, maybe a bit more relaxed than up North..?

That's what I did btw., discussed the whole lot with him, before making any alterations, made notes and took pics (he too) and adhered to his verbal guidelines. Although not legal requirement, Inspectors love safety equipment like fire extinguishers, for instance. Cargo capacity in weight needed to exceed passenger carrying capacity in weight, where 1 pax was calculated @ 75kgs (std. value across EU. for roadworthiness certification)

For corporate purposes in France, the MIXTO makes a difference in taxation/BIK/VAT too. In theory you could reclaim the VAT once re-registered but that's another days work..for a good "Cabinet".

Hope that helps with your quest for the most efficient registration in France...where a good lunch always helps to move things along..

Traveling Marvin · Jan 21, 2023

Maybe I should mention that BREAK would be the preferred categorisation for me.
So identically to the Defender before they need to move it to a Utility Vehicle CTTE.

frankkk · Jan 22, 2023

Dunno whether that still exists for new vehicles in France ? The Grenadier might well come as a MIXTO ADAPTABLE ex INEOS...for the manufacturer it would be the simplest classification, it is applicable across the EU. In some countries, "old" classes can still be applied on new vehicles, this is to accommodate local manufacturers. However, for INEOS it would not really make sense to go for one of these, unless there are major tax implications in a potentially huge market, you never know. What's the dealers idea on this. ?

Traveling Marvin · Jan 27, 2023

So, finally I got a „confirmation“ from my dealer, that the car will be „VP“, Tax class „M1“, and body type „BREAK“.
Immediately followed by the reassuring „normalement“.

So I’m relieved. „peut-être“.

Truffel · Apr 1, 2023

There is no eco malus involved. Every new car has the problem but the Grenadier is free from the extra tax. Ask your dealer for a devis and you will see. The carte grise is about € 1.000

Alprider73 · Aug 1, 2023

I was led to believe only the 5 seat commercial (no windows in the cargo space) was free from the malus charge?

Voader - Oudersopzwier · Aug 1, 2023

Alprider73 said:
I was led to believe only the 5 seat commercial (no windows in the cargo space) was free from the malus charge?

It depends on the country. Here in Belgium you need minimum 1/2 of the wheelbase center as cargo space. And a separation wall in between the cargo and passenger space. (Can also be done by a minimal upstanding of 20 cm) Glass in sidewalks or not is not an issue. So for the Grenadier it means a two seater. Or you need to go for the pickup version If you want to have 5 seats.
You can modify this later (getting the second row of seats out) but then it is easier to do this with the vehicle N1 cat and not the M1 cat.

Alprider73 · Aug 2, 2023

Le modèle Station Wagon du Grenadier est un véhicule VP- 5 places, disponible en deux finitions Belstaff à lancement. Le confort des passagers est privilégié par rapport à l’espace de chargement, avec un espace plus généreux pour la deuxième rangée de sièges en comparaison avec le modèle Utility Wagon à 5 places. Le modèle Station Wagon est soumis aux malus écologiques et poids appliqué aux véhicules de tourisme lors de sa première immatriculation en France.

It seems that I am correct, only the commercial versions are free of the malus!

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Europe France : body type ?

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