Trailer Electrics

Hicarus · Jan 6, 2023

More trawling. Does anyone have any ideas on what this connection is and is for?
Is this the Euro Plug referred to in other threads?

Krabby · Jan 6, 2023

Rear winch?

Jean Mercier · Jan 6, 2023

Probably a possibility, but also power for the trailer I guess or inside equipment.

emax · Jan 6, 2023

That's a high current plug. Looks very much like what Krabby said.

But perhaps they are smarter than we, and have, like Jean said, thought of a trailer supply. Trailers are not necessarily limited to some lights. e.G. a camping trailer like the Bruder-X will take a considerablke amount of power - for a fridge, external lights or delivering solar power to the car batteries - there are many scenarios for a beefy plug.

DCPU · Jan 6, 2023

Hicarus said:
More trawling. Does anyone have any ideas on what this connection is and is for?
Is this the Euro Plug referred to in other threads?

Are you getting Euro and NATO mixed up?

The output is this:

Davman · Jan 6, 2023

A lot of people in OZ will do as @emax said, and use it to connect to their caravan fridge, but more likely connect it to their caravans storage battery - hopefully via a dc/dc charger.
Typically we use what’s called an Anderson plug connector.
https://andersonconnect.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36

frankkk · Jan 6, 2023

The NATO plug and socket are multi purpose, rated to 150AMPS from what I recall. Typically a winch, a lighmast or other high current drawing equipment is attached, perfect for jump starting too. In a typical military application it is wired directly to the vehicles battery, without fuse or solenoid. The wiring is probably tdifferent on the Grenadier, but you don't want to use the socket for charging a battery, except in emergencies. All you do is, flatten the main batteries of your vehicle. Different story whilst driving, however, you need to calculate the output of the alternator against the combined ratings of you batteries and the currents you are drawing with other devices. Not that straightforward, the whole thing.

frankkk · Jan 6, 2023

frankkk said:
The NATO plug and socket are multi purpose, rated to 150AMPS from what I recall. Typically a winch, a lighmast or other high current drawing equipment is attached, perfect for jump starting too. In a typical military application it is wired directly to the vehicles battery, without fuse or solenoid. The wiring is probably tdifferent on the Grenadier, but you don't want to use the socket for charging a battery, except in emergencies. All you do is, flatten the main batteries of your vehicle. Different story whilst driving, however, you need to calculate the output of the alternator against the combined ratings of you batteries and the currents you are drawing with other devices. Not that straightforward, the whole thing.

..oh, forgot, on Euro6d vehicles the alternator does not deliver full output, even if the batteries would like it to...a "charge booster" is required, telling the alternator what to do.

Davman · Jan 6, 2023

frankkk said:
, but you don't want to use the socket for charging a battery, except in emergencies. All you do is, flatten the main batteries of your vehicle. Different story whilst driving, however, you need to calculate the output of the alternator against the combined ratings of you batteries and the currents you are drawing with other devices. Not that straightforward, the whole thing.

All good reasons for the dc/dc charger in between the starter battery and any auxiliary battery.

emax · Jan 6, 2023

frankkk said:
perfect for jump starting too

Perhaps a stopgap. But by no means perfect.

DaveB · Jan 6, 2023

emax said:
Perhaps a stopgap. But by no means perfect.

I have ordered the auxiliary battery so look forward to finding out more about how the wiring interacts with the extra outlets and the C-tek dual battery system

frankkk · Jan 7, 2023

emax said:
Perhaps a stopgap. But by no means perfect.

Why not ? Please explain..
How do you jump start any safer then with a NATO Socket (and the appropriate cable) ?

emax · Jan 7, 2023

A current of 150 amps is not sufficient, and the wiring is not designed for such loads if it lasts longer than just a few seconds.

Logsplitter · Jan 7, 2023

emax said:
A current of 150 amps is not sufficient, and the wiring is not designed for such loads if it lasts longer than just a few seconds.

Agree with that. That’s a long cable run also to the rear of the vehicle. I used a 350A Anderson plug right next to battery box for jump leads in my defender. But looks like the live terminal under the bonnet of the Grenadier is made for the job. So will be using that myself

DCPU · Jan 7, 2023

The brand of NATO sockets used come with crimps for either 35mm² or 50mm² cable and are rated at 300A or 500A. Ineos have it labelled as a 500A circuit as it's supposed to power the portable winch.

Logsplitter · Jan 7, 2023

DCPU said:
The brand of NATO sockets used come with crimps for either 35mm² or 50mm² cable and are rated at 300A or 500A. Ineos have it labelled as a 500A circuit as it's supposed to power the portable winch.

Brilliant I didn’t know that. I should have checked before accepting that it was 150A as stated earlier.

emax · Jan 7, 2023

frankkk said:
The NATO plug and socket are multi purpose, rated to 150AMPS from what I recall

Frank may have remembered something wrong.

I can only say that 150 amps is not enough for jump starting.

But considering the dimensions of the plug which I have seen, I would still be surprised if it can really stand such currents for longer than a few seconds. 300 amps is bold, 500 amps is hard to believe. That's even beyond very high welding power.

Would be interesting for what duration these values apply.

The other question is whether it's wired for jump starting. Most modern vehicles have a 'controlled' connector for that and switch off if the battery voltage drops below a critical value. So there is usually no direct wiring from the battery to the starter.

Besides this, I wonder about 50 mm² being able to handle 500 amps at all. According to VDE 0295 this is way too much.

That's "only" a German definition, but that's what I am used to in 12V applications. And German definitions are commonly not known to be unprecise.

My doubts remain.

Hicarus · Jan 7, 2023

DCPU said:
Are you getting Euro and NATO mixed up?

The output is this:
View attachment 7799619

Yup, clang! NATO not Euro. Blame senility!

frankkk · Jan 7, 2023

emax said:
A current of 150 amps is not sufficient, and the wiring is not designed for such loads if it lasts longer than just a few seconds.

That's the MIL rating, the socket/plug can seemingly handle much higher loads (x 4 ?). We had our winches always set up w a NATO socket, lots of winching over 5 minutes or so, no probs, whatsoever. Advantage: plug acts as safety to disconnect power and no losses through extra wiring or solenoids..pretty much like an Anderson socket, just don't like the plastic of that, personally.

The NATO plug/socket worked a treat for me for over 10 years in Africa. The universal use of the socket in all (NATO)armies and in Africa, makes it the more attractive in my book. Military equipment is durable and interesting for general purpose use outdoors, available at reasonable prices new and second hand.

Interestingly, only worm-gear and PTO winches survived any longer then just a couple of weeks (or even days) in the Sahara. Pretty much all the stuff available, even that from reputable manufacturers, gave up the ghost under the heat and the strain pretty quick. That has nothing to do with the socket now and is another days work...

Back to the jump leads: some manufacturers that fit NATO sockets, supply jumps leads ex works with the vehicle, like the ones in the pic..those are from a 1988 24v Auwaerter coach w a 10l engine..did the trick on that one and has been doin´ it for me ever since, w a 2.9 DELA and a 12v system.

.

emax · Jan 7, 2023

Would like to see a jump start of the Grenadier @ 0 °C over this plug.

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