How many PTO/LS produced

grenadierboy · Oct 11, 2022

Does anyone know (or think they know) how many PTO2, PTO3, LS1, LS2 have been produced to date?

I read somewhere that the PTO series were first produced from April or May onwards this year.

In another thread today (Aussie

bound Grenadiers in Zeebrugge!), it was stated that the 6-8 Grenadiers on their way to Australia are LS1.

It would be very interesting to know how many PTO02, PTO03, LS1 cars were produced in the past 3 months - being the original period when customer cars were expected to be produced at the rate of 300 per week; i.e. approx 3,500 cars.

That would then tell us the magnitude of the production constraints.

DCPU · Oct 11, 2022

I'm not quite following your final bit of logic there? My understanding was that PTO2 & PTO3 would be finite build quantities based on what was a required for each.

130 PTO1 - defining the assembly process and also provides the engineering team with production-representative vehicles for final rounds of testing and certification.

138 PTO2 - validate the assembly process and build quality.

??? PTO3 - launch series vehicles proves out the supply chain, logistics, and build rate.

It may be no coincidence that there are 133 workstations in the general assembly area.

abakker · Oct 11, 2022

my guess is that there is nothing to be derived from the production quantity of prototypes. I doubt they have made more than a thousand, likely way fewer, and not all of them would have been totally complete. They have probably not put carpets, airbags, radios, etc into that many of the vehicles that were just fitted for telemetry, destruction / fatigue testing, etc. the point of prototypes is to reduce costs, and manufacturing too many would be the opposite.

OGrid · Oct 11, 2022

grenadierboy said:
Does anyone know (or think they know) how many PTO2, PTO3, LS1, LS2 have been produced to date?

I read somewhere that the PTO series were first produced from April or May onwards this year.

In another thread today (Aussie bound Grenadiers in Zeebrugge!), it was stated that the 6-8 Grenadiers on their way to Australia are LS1.

It would be very interesting to know how many PTO02, PTO03, LS1 cars were produced in the past 3 months - being the original period when customer cars were expected to be produced at the rate of 300 per week; i.e. approx 3,500 cars.

That would then tell us the magnitude of the production constraints.

Hi, a quick clarification. They ‘might’ be LS1, no confirmation at this stage though. This was based on an extended conversation I had at a recent 4x4 show with an Ineos exec lining up with recent conversations by other forum members in the last few days with Ineos. I’m awaiting confirmation.

There was mention at the show that PTO3, PTO4, etc would manifest if required, but only if something was identified and required addressing. Based on the others members conversations and the recent Video apology from Ineos on timings I can’t see that has happened.

Hope that helps

grenadierboy · Oct 12, 2022

My only point was trying to gauge the level of of the supply chain problems by contrasting what INEOS has produced against what they said they WOULD produce.

For example - in the period April to October it seems INEOS was able to manufacture, maybe, 400 or so Grenadiers but only in the form of PTO1, PTO2, PTO3 & LS1, whereas, according to original estimates they should have produced, around, 3,500 cars, being the 400 above PLUS approx 300 customers cars a week from start of August.

So - it's reasonable to think they have severe restrictions on some parts as 90% of their planned production in this period did not occur.

emax · Oct 12, 2022

What does 'LS1' mean?

DCPU · Oct 12, 2022

grenadierboy said:
So - it's reasonable to think they have severe restrictions on some parts as 90% of their planned production in this period did not occur.

Or they halted work because parts needed re-work, modification or re-design...

There were internal as well as external factors at play ~ look at the door inserts, or even the configurator going live showing, for example, an integrated winch, the full specification for which hadn't been signed off yet by Ineos.

It seems easy to say delays are down to the supplier not providing the parts but if that's because you haven't told him exactly what you want...

In your example above if only 10% could be made, then wouldn't you prioritise the demo fleet and get them out to the retail partners?

Tazzieman · Oct 12, 2022

The original protos were built by Magna Steyr and are apparently "worth" millions.
Museum pieces, if they aren't crushed.

JOB · Oct 12, 2022

Tazzieman said:
The original protos were built by Magna Steyr and are apparently "worth" millions.
Museum pieces, if they aren't crushed.

Maybe time will tell!

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The unique thing about YVB165H is the fact that many of the original features including the original injection moulded Palomino PVC interior and door cards remain intact. The car is presented with a substantial history file detailing the full ownership trail including copies of the original 'buff'…

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Halliwell Jones Chester · Oct 12, 2022

emax said:
What does 'LS1' mean?

Launch Series.

DaveB · Oct 12, 2022

DCPU said:
Or they halted work because parts needed re-work, modification or re-design...

There were internal as well as external factors at play ~ look at the door inserts, or even the configurator going live showing, for example, an integrated winch, the full specification for which hadn't been signed off yet by Ineos.

It seems easy to say delays are down to the supplier not providing the parts but if that's because you haven't told him exactly what you want...

In your example above if only 10% could be made, then wouldn't you prioritise the demo fleet and get them out to the retail partners?

They may have just been missing the hand brake lever. Or they could have been short the engine/gearbox. or the frame could have been missing.
Any combination would halt production.

CountyV8 · Oct 13, 2022

Tazzieman said:
The original protos were built by Magna Steyr and are apparently "worth" millions.
Museum pieces, if they aren't crushed.

I believe Pininfarina made them

emax · Oct 13, 2022

DaveB said:
Any combination would halt production.

Doesn't have to be parts for the car.

Even missing e.g. welding gas is a show stopper.

8617400 · Nov 5, 2022

PTO3-510 spotted in London last week.

grenadierboy · Nov 5, 2022

breeding like rabbits

OGrid · Nov 6, 2022

Grendy said:
PTO3-510 spotted in London last week.

Very interesting development indeed.

Thank you for posting.

Halliwell Jones Chester · Nov 6, 2022

That was the car at INEOS HQ earlier this week.

DCPU · Nov 6, 2022

Halliwell Jones Chester said:
That was the car at INEOS HQ earlier this week.

Did you take any more photos that you can share?

JOB · Nov 6, 2022

It’s a shame we can’t see the plate to see if any more details can be seen on the vehicle checker as plenty of fields are blank if you run one of the PTO2 registrations.

emax · Nov 6, 2022

grenadierboy said:
breeding like rabbits

Hopefully.

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