Where's the confidence level in the company?

[FlyingTexan]

I now there's going to be the "It's a new vehicle" crowd but lets iron some things out. The IG was marketed as a rugged vehicle that would be widely accessible to the everyday owner. There'd be parts manuals, the ability to order parts directly yourself to install (and be warranted), the ability to use the Bosh network of mechanic shops, plenty of part availability, and our damn jackets.


Everything has stopped. I've been waiting 10 weeks for parts and told that NOW it's because of a factory shutdown. I'd really like someone to make sense of how that plays out. They have parts orders waiting and shut down those lines as well? Where's the software update they said was coming in July? The trailer towing update software that was due out shortly after delivery? The jacket I should have gotten a year ago? I've been waiting 10 weeks for parts and now have several service related messages on my display I simply can't get rid of. I could take it to the dealership and pay their $250 an hour to have them reset it but it's bullshit those are there in the first place. Never seen a vehicle I could reset the factory service. Sorry but I don't go 12k miles, actually using the thing, between oil changes. I do them every 5k. I'm at 14,000 miles and while the vehicle has been great the service from Ineos and the the dealership network has been absolute shit. Ineos doesn't even show mine online as having been produced yet and it was one of the first off the boat in the US. So far they've fallen short on every single bullet point of their mission statements. I went to Moab, had a blast, bent some parts and now it's been 10 WEEKS and zero communication. How can anyone have faith in a product if they can't get any of the parts they need?

With the recent shutting down of the factory and the other promises that have fallen short does anyone else worry about the sustainability of the company? I'm scared to even try and have fun with it because there's no way to fix it.

 

[Zimm]

Yea. Not having service parts due to an assembly shutdown, is odd. When Ford was stacking assembled cars in need of chips, you could get any part you needed. They didn't kill the rest of the supply chain. I really don't understand whats going on, and I'd like to think they know better than me or anyone else as to how their business is run, but it really smells like the seats killed essential cash flow and the whole system is now in some sort of low cash burn hibernation. It's weird.

 

[holdmybeer]

My truck is great. My dealer is great. Ineos Automotive lacks integrity.

Ineos' own words, last week: "we cannot provide a specific timeline for the completion of the entire process at this moment."

WTF. This might be okay if "moment" meant "moment". But Ineos allows "this moment" to exist forever.

Ineos doesn't have many trucks or customers yet so they still have a short time to step up. I wish they were transparent and fixed their order tracking, production tracking, jacket deliveries, service manual availability, and showed owners how to service/modify/reset their trucks. We bought into a true ownership/DIY ethos that they seem to have forgetten about and aren't talking about anymore.

Suggestion: Ineos, as a gesture, why not press "pause" on your shiny Arcane Works and big entry into the Chinese market until you keep your promises and make existing customers whole?

 

[IslandFalconer]

I feel the same 5 Months and my truck still isn’t fixed. The list just gets longer every day I own it. I dropped it off on Friday, demanded a loaner and drove home. I’m now 1750KM away. They can keep mine till they fix it or replace it. I even offered to just keep the loaner. It’s far more stable and reliable. I checked the error log for my loaner 0, Zip, Nada, None. Mine has many many many. The answer from Ineos is always the same “Take it to the dealer” the dealer of course has no software for the problems. Lacking Tow Module and Software, Fuel Gauge Software, ADAS Software, Apple CarPlay Software. No service reminder reset (Software)
Power Steering Errors(Software?)
When my dealer asks Ineos they get told nothing, they have asked repeatedly and gotten nowhere. My A/C Evaporator is leaking and “The guy” that knows how to fix it at Ineos is “On Leave” (Quit? Left?) So there it is I’ve resorted to more pressure. I have the loaner, they have the problem child. I’m not driving this one back until mine is fully resolved including ADAD. So Ineos had better get its act together. And the Loaner belongs to Ineos, not the dealership. So it’s now on Ineos to solve it because I have their test Mule.

 

[Zimm]

I'm not certain about canuk law, but, here if the owner of the car asks for it back and you refuse, they have a few options, the obvious being a 3rd degree felony and a visit from the sheriff depriving you of both the vehicle and 24hrs of freedom. But, I would like to see you finally prevail, so, good luck!

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

Here in the uk, my dealer has been excellent. All warranty work has been timely in so far that if they say it takes three weeks to get a part, it’s usually on the vehicle in four. I had a very early example and had a load of stuff to put up with, but I’d not be without it now. It’s rugged, comfortable, practical and rare. Dealing with the idiosyncratic behaviour of Ineos is all part of the brand experience…!

 

[anand]

I now there's going to be the "It's a new vehicle" crowd but lets iron some things out. The IG was marketed as a rugged vehicle that would be widely accessible to the everyday owner. There'd be parts manuals, the ability to order parts directly yourself to install (and be warranted), the ability to use the Bosh network of mechanic shops, plenty of part availability, and our damn jackets.


Everything has stopped. I've been waiting 10 weeks for parts and told that NOW it's because of a factory shutdown. I'd really like someone to make sense of how that plays out. They have parts orders waiting and shut down those lines as well? Where's the software update they said was coming in July? The trailer towing update software that was due out shortly after delivery? The jacket I should have gotten a year ago? I've been waiting 10 weeks for parts and now have several service related messages on my display I simply can't get rid of. I could take it to the dealership and pay their $250 an hour to have them reset it but it's bullshit those are there in the first place. Never seen a vehicle I could reset the factory service. Sorry but I don't go 12k miles, actually using the thing, between oil changes. I do them every 5k. I'm at 14,000 miles and while the vehicle has been great the service from Ineos and the the dealership network has been absolute shit. Ineos doesn't even show mine online as having been produced yet and it was one of the first off the boat in the US. So far they've fallen short on every single bullet point of their mission statements. I went to Moab, had a blast, bent some parts and now it's been 10 WEEKS and zero communication. How can anyone have faith in a product if they can't get any of the parts they need?

So there is a lot of grey area here and mixing and matching between dealer communication and corporate communication... But I'll work through the post with my thoughts.

• Customer access to a service manual keeps getting pushed, and hasn't been very specific, definitely a communications failure from Ineos
• The ordering of parts directly was dropped from specific mention quite some time ago, before US deliveries started I think, also as with any other brand, any parts you install yourself carry a warranty on the part, but not the labor associated.
• Ineos retracted the Bosch service network plan over a year ago
• The jacket fiasco is an absolute flub from Ineos corporate
• If you have parts orders, those are handled by the dealer, and wouldn't garner any communication from Ineos corporate (at least not to the customer); parts production has not been shut down or altered at all
• A dealer announced there would be a software update in July, Ineos never made that claim.
• All the trailer towing updates have been released for quite some time now (there was an initial one in February, and an additional a few months ago to correct an issue on a very small number of vehicles)
• Jacket - see above about jackets
• Clearing the service reminder is a task that can only be done at a dealer, what the dealer charges for that is not under control of anyone except for the dealer themselves. If they charge $250 just to clear your service reminder, I would take that as a sign of how little they value you as a customer.
• The Ineos website vehicle tracking has been horrible since the start; it has been discussed many times over the past 16 months that it is manually updated, and lots of those manual updates fell through the cracks. At this point, why even care about it since you have the vehicle.

Have you attempted to get the parts from another dealer just to compare?

 

[shiv.nandak]

• All the trailer towing updates have been released for quite some time now (there was an initial one in February, and an additional a few months ago to correct an issue on a very small number of vehicles)

May i ask what the issue was? (To make sure i don’t have it)

 

[anand]

May i ask what the issue was? (To make sure i don’t have it)

Some vehicles had an issues with the signals not working correctly after the first trailer software flash, so there was an update to it.

 

[IslandFalconer]

I'm not certain about canuk law, but, here if the owner of the car asks for it back and you refuse, they have a few options, the obvious being a 3rd degree felony and a visit from the sheriff depriving you of both the vehicle and 24hrs of freedom. But, I would like to see you finally prevail, so, good luck!

i didn’t say I wouldn’t give it back. Just that the distance makes it more compelling for them to fix it.

 

[trobex]

My Australian version has been pretty good to be honest. Nothing to halt the use of vehicle and less leaks than my 2018 Ford Ranger had!!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

So there is a lot of grey area here and mixing and matching between dealer communication and corporate communication... But I'll work through the post with my thoughts.

• Customer access to a service manual keeps getting pushed, and hasn't been very specific, definitely a communications failure from Ineos
• The ordering of parts directly was dropped from specific mention quite some time ago, before US deliveries started I think, also as with any other brand, any parts you install yourself carry a warranty on the part, but not the labor associated.
• Ineos retracted the Bosch service network plan over a year ago
• The jacket fiasco is an absolute flub from Ineos corporate
• If you have parts orders, those are handled by the dealer, and wouldn't garner any communication from Ineos corporate (at least not to the customer); parts production has not been shut down or altered at all
• A dealer announced there would be a software update in July, Ineos never made that claim.
• All the trailer towing updates have been released for quite some time now (there was an initial one in February, and an additional a few months ago to correct an issue on a very small number of vehicles)
• Jacket - see above about jackets
• Clearing the service reminder is a task that can only be done at a dealer, what the dealer charges for that is not under control of anyone except for the dealer themselves. If they charge $250 just to clear your service reminder, I would take that as a sign of how little they value you as a customer.
• The Ineos website vehicle tracking has been horrible since the start; it has been discussed many times over the past 16 months that it is manually updated, and lots of those manual updates fell through the cracks. At this point, why even care about it since you have the vehicle.

Have you attempted to get the parts from another dealer just to compare?

Excellent breakdown. I would call a couple of other dealers on parts - Knauz is my dealer but I grabbed parts from Lyle Pearson in the past. Parts stocking is still lumpy across dealers - as would be expected this early in the game. I’ve met with both a BMW dealer and an independent European import mechanic, and they agreed to help out in a pinch. Had the independent mechanic do the Fox stabilizer and he loves the Grenadier - super simple design. Neither can do resets but that’s not the point - just need a backup plan if I can’t get to the dealer. Jackets I don’t care - ended up doing a config off a base and spent significantly more than either a Fieldmaster or Trialmaster but got everything the way I wanted it - but no jacket. Service manual would be nice. SW update was DEFINITELY a dealer thing (I know which one) - not Ineos. Would be nice to have but nothing urgent. Honestly, they just need to fix the seat supplier, get the service network figured out (including resets, TPMS, etc), and publish a service manual - and send some jackets to those of you who spent less than I did, apparently because you like the jacket (that jacket, BTW, not a great look - not sure why that would have been compelling in the first place). Other than the service network, I would love for them to come out with a manufacturer-certified lift kit (like Toyota does with TRD), and think they need to figure out a game plan to deal with the stupid European EV deadline (or just forget about Europe after 2030).

 

[landmannnn]

On the Bosch service centre network, the tie up was abandoned as not all of these shops have a lift capable of lifting a Grenadier.
Nothing to stop you using a Bosch service centre though.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

On the Bosch service centre network, the tie up was abandoned as not all of these shops have a lift capable of lifting a Grenadier.
Nothing to stop you using a Bosch service centre though.

Yes - I have one in my town - their lift was the problem- they can still get it on the lift but have to stop before it’s all the way up, just because of clearance. It’s heavy and it’s tall.

 

[bikesandguitars]

Regardless of the forum member’s confidence in the company, Ineos itself just opened two dealerships in China, the world’s largest market for automobiles. The dealerships opened in Beijing and Chengdu. Two additional dealerships will open very soon in Shanghai and Guangzhou. This doesn’t seem like a company in retreat, does it?

China is expected to be Ineos largest sales region by volume as it is for BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Aston Martin, Porsche, Mercedes, etc., High end brands do very, very well in China. Exclusive high end brands do even better.

That should tell you all need you to know.

 

[Zimm]

That capex money for china was in the pipe in ‘23.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

That capex money for china was in the pipe in ‘23.

Exactly - if people think this was a knee jerk reaction to sales performance elsewhere, they don’t get the budgeting cycle, dealership onboarding, and regulatory lead times. This is just the planned rollout moving along

 

[ADVAW8S]

I wanted to get a jacket and end up with a vehicle. Sounds like I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out.

 

[parb]

Some vehicles had an issues with the signals not working correctly after the first trailer software flash, so there was an update to it.

Correct. I actually was at my dealer yesterday to have three things sorted out. They checked my vin for warranty work required by Ineos and found two inspections to the towing package that Ineos required.

The dealer shared that outside my inspection they have been trained on 3 different software issues with the towing package, each depends on which vin you have (eg they had three different software packages and picked the one they installed depending on the vin ). If I developed software that way at work my field tech organization would kill me. We implement high levels of abstractions at the core of the software to hide to the field techs that the underlying hardware of software implementation is different. But i don't think Ineos is unique, this old school style of share engineering is prevalent in the car industry and particularly in the supply chain.

The dealer also shared the was an issue with the fuel level sensor for some vehicles that could turn on the check engine light after fueling that some vehicles where having (mine doesn't). Ineos haven't developed a for it yet but have told them that there is a timing issue between the fuel level sensor and the engine management system (although I suspect it's more likely timing in the emissions control system and specifically the evap system, I've seen these issues when I worked with another manufacturers e/e engineering team).

I had no issues with towing but they found that my VIN was included in a group on vins that required inspection.

But the point about parts is well placed. I ordered a part, it was readily available in Europe yet took 4 weeks to get to my dealer.

The problem I really want them to fix is my ac. If I run it and adjust the vent dial from front to front + feet it sends hot air out of all vents. If I adjust it back to front vent only then I get AC again. 100% repeatable.
Problem fixed by dealer. I was low on refrigerant, they told me that some vehicles came low on refrigerant and once they fill them they work well. So far mine is ready.

I also signed up for the namibia adventure. We are one month away from when it starts and when inquired if I'm going ineos is telling me that I'll be updated in "due time". I don't know about you but I prefer to buy plane tickets to the other side of the planet with a few weeks head start to get favorable fares.. I think it's a similar symptom of Ineos being a bit ahead of their skis..

 

[ColoradoMike]

Honestly....our dealer has been OUTSTANDING! Red Noland. Any questions we have had they let us know.

I have a TON of confidence with Red Noland in Colorado Springs...

We will all see what goes on with parts in the future.....