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Americas What USA dealer(s) would you specifically nominate to offer the Grenadier?

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What local USA dealer(s) (name/location) would you nominate to be a Grenadier dealership? Please explain why they would be a good choice (service, staff, location, 4x4 oriented, etc.). Obviously larger, multi-franchise, brand name dealers make sense, not the smaller <50 car sales per year type dealers.
 
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John Deere. AgPro
John_Deere_USA_100dpi.png
 
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Stu_Barnes

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What local USA dealer(s) (name/location) would you nominate to be a Grenadier dealership? Please explain why they would be a good choice (service, staff, location, 4x4 oriented, etc.). Obviously larger, multi-franchise, brand name dealers make sense, not the smaller <50 car sales per year type dealers.
Great first post @SteBay711 I'm sure you will get some great replies, It's subject very close to the hearts of a lot of members here.
 
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That's a tough one. I honestly don't know who as I've been soured to maybe 60% of dealer experiences. Knowing that John Deere, as a company, fully dissuades right-to-repair and has fought against it, they would be at the bottom of the list for me. Their recent statements to changing their tune is highly dubious. John Deere and Ineos have opposite ethos on this topic and glad they will not be joining forces, most likely.
 

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Almost needs to be independent dealerships rather than any brand affiliated store. There aren’t many honest dealerships in the country. If a dealership has a reputation for making sales at or below MSRP, chances are they are raping their customers on finance and service. The converse is also prevalent; decent service department you are paying for with prices being jacked up over MSRP. I would challenge any large dealership in the United States to make their case that they use fair retail pricing AND honest service. It does not exist because the dealership model itself is a criminal enterprise. Tesla has cracked the glass but it will be a massive and long battle to dismantle such a profitable mafia that is a car dealership in the United States. I have been treated well by a few dealerships representing the same brand as another dealer who literally commits a crime with every sale (both are Porsche dealerships). My point is that IA doesn’t have a clear choice. The John Deere idea could be worse. Maybe a Kubota dealer? Purposefully shake up the hierarchy and make it clear what is expected. Hand a dealer the golden goose and they’re eating foie gras TONIGHT! That’s the American way
 

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Viknesh Vijayenthiran - Motor Authority

Posted: Sep 12, 2022

'Greg Clark told Automotive News Ineos plans to have around 35 dealerships across the U.S. and Canada, and that a number of BMW dealerships and European import dealerships have expressed interest.'

This statement may be outdated by now however.

This is the dealership map for BMW USA (I'm assuming its accurate)
There are 367 BMW dealerships in the United States as of February 06, 2023. The state with the most number of BMW locations in the US is California, with 52 dealerships, which is about 14% of all BMW dealerships in the US.

367 Locations
48 States and Territories
344 Cities

BMW_USA Dealerships.png


How I see things.

If there's going to be 35 dealerships spread over well, more than 7 million sq miles (edit. Forgot you Canada sorry, you’re part of the 7 and have 52 BMW dealerships), then it makes the trip to the dealers in Europe look like a pretty easy journey to make, but much more of a potential adventure in NA :)

As to where to appoint dealerships, the logical place would be close to major population centers. However I wouldn't put them in the middle of a major city for example. I'd personally like to see them go to a 'mom and pop' shop on the outskirts, and have it somewhat accessible for people that live in rural areas. If I had an option of using a well established dealership that is part of an auto mall for instance or the family run tractor dealership then I'd go to the little guy, giving them a slice of a new market. Thats the emotional me answering. The sensible me says go for the major affluent population centers, establish a presence and work outwards. It's a hard mix though spread incredibly thinly with distances being what they are in North America.

I do think this is a vehicle that people will travel to purchase, especially initially and in the case of North America, I know people that cross the country for the right deal. As we've discussed to death her before the dealer markups can be in the 10's of thousands.
We're not on this forum by sheer chance, everyone has sought it out, at least thats the assumption I'm making. If you can roll out the drive days all over the country then I'm sure you'll get people traveling large distances to purchase.

But after the first year or 2 of deliveries then the problem I see will be how to continue sales and grow them, and for that the cities sadly come into the mix more and more. This is not a cheap vehicle option for North America and the enthusiast market is only so strong.

The other big question is how far from a service centre will the customer be after purchasing to maintain the warranty...

I forgot to put in my idea for LA. Well a quick google and you find the nearest tractor dealers to be 1-2 hours out of central la in industrial estates and those being part of very large companies, so the mom and pop idea is a bust. Being what this place is (LA), you need a dealer centrally, so a stand alone premises or even a temp pop up dealer. I know it sounds crazy but, Tesla, lucid, VinFast and Even Smart did this in LA, I'm not sure how many sales they made but a lot of people were pouring over the vehicles when they were in the various malls around town.

The bottom line is preferably close to me, but I'll travel a long way for the right deal, and through this forum we're slowly building a network of preferred pit stops on the way home :)
 
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DaveB

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Viknesh Vijayenthiran - Motor Authority

Posted: Sep 12, 2022

'Greg Clark told Automotive News Ineos plans to have around 35 dealerships across the U.S. and Canada, and that a number of BMW dealerships and European import dealerships have expressed interest.'

This statement may be outdated by now however.

This is the dealership map for BMW USA (I'm assuming its accurate)
There are 367 BMW dealerships in the United States as of February 06, 2023. The state with the most number of BMW locations in the US is California, with 52 dealerships, which is about 14% of all BMW dealerships in the US.

367 Locations
48 States and Territories
344 Cities

View attachment 7803226

How I see things.

If there's going to be 35 dealerships spread over well, more than 7 million sq miles, then it makes the trip to the dealers in Europe look like a pretty easy journey to make, but much more of a potential adventure in NA :)

As to where to appoint dealerships, the logical place would be close to major population centers. However I wouldn't put them in the middle of a major city for example. I'd personally like to see them go to a 'mom and pop' shop on the outskirts, and have it somewhat accessible for people that live in rural areas. If I had an option of using a well established dealership that is part of an auto mall for instance or the family run tractor dealership then I'd go to the little guy, giving them a slice of a new market. Thats the emotional me answering. The sensible me says go for the major affluent population centers, establish a presence and work outwards. It's a hard mix though spread incredibly thinly with distances being what they are in North America.

I do think this is a vehicle that people will travel to purchase, especially initially and in the case of North America, I know people that cross the country for the right deal. As we've discussed to death her before the dealer markups can be in the 10's of thousands.
We're not on this forum by sheer chance, everyone has sought it out, at least thats the assumption I'm making. If you can roll out the drive days all over the country then I'm sure you'll get people traveling large distances to purchase.

But after the first year or 2 of deliveries then the problem I see will be how to continue sales and grow them, and for that the cities sadly come into the mix more and more. This is not a cheap vehicle option for North America and the enthusiast market is only so strong.

The other big question is how far from a service centre will the customer be after purchasing to maintain the warranty...

I forgot to put in my idea for LA. Well a quick google and you find the nearest tractor dealers to be 1-2 hours out of central la in industrial estates and those being part of very large companies, so the mom and pop idea is a bust. Being what this place is (LA), you need a dealer centrally, so a stand alone premises or even a temp pop up dealer. I know it sounds crazy but, Tesla, lucid, VinFast and Even Smart did this in LA, I'm not sure how many sales they made but a lot of people were pouring over the vehicles when they were in the various malls around town.

The bottom line is preferably close to me, but I'll travel a long way for the right deal, and through this forum we're slowly building a network of preferred pit stops on the way home :)
There are only 3.8 million square miles in the US so there is half your problem solved.
There are 2.9 million square miles in Australia and we only have 28 dealers
1676354089319.png
 

bigleonski

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There are only 3.8 million square miles in the US so there is half your problem solved.
There are 2.9 million square miles in Australia and we only have 28 dealers
View attachment 7803230
Actually the USA without Alaska is only 3.12 million sq. Miles, so about the same size as Australia.

And don’t tell them we have 5 states bigger than Texas, because they won’t believe you. 😉😂😂


Sorry for the hijack gents. 😁
 
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I love the John Deere idea as I live out in the farm fields of Michigan..... There is also one a few miles down the road. haha

The scary part is there were dealerships signs installed on a local dealer here when the "Crosslander" was going to be sold in the US years ago... and then it never showed up. I tried to buy the defunct sign from a dealer but missed it.
 

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That's a tough one. I honestly don't know who as I've been soured to maybe 60% of dealer experiences. Knowing that John Deere, as a company, fully dissuades right-to-repair and has fought against it, they would be at the bottom of the list for me. Their recent statements to changing their tune is highly dubious. John Deere and Ineos have opposite ethos on this topic and glad they will not be joining forces, most likely.

That's a fine point about Right to Repair (in fact I just read that an 11th state has started to design legislation to prevent the restrictive practices - DENVER POST). But in some ways, that's a corporate philosophy and mandate, and hopefully not that of the JD dealers and employees themselves.

This is a fantastic conversation and one that I am glad @SteBay711 has started. My collective dealership experiences over the last 29 years have been more negative than positive with respect to sales, service, and overall satisfaction with the customer experience. That said, I've only purchased cars and trucks from blue collar brands, and never farm equipment, motorcycles, or anything else; perhaps those dealers provide a better experience. When you remove the greedy cash grab "market adjustments," tack-on bullshit money grabs (ie "undercoating," scotch guard, pin-striping, door edge protectors, etc, extended warranty and finance shadiness, and hawkish, over-aggressive sales tactics from car dealerships - what's left? On the sales side, that's all there seems to be. Well, maybe some ill-informed sales people who do not even know the product they're selling too.

Service wise, you hope that the mechanics are well-trained and certified by their respective brands (I know that BMW has some fantastic training programs), you hope that the services they claim you need are in fact legitimate and required, and finally, you hope that they're doing what they say they are (ie giving me the full synthetic fluids I've paid for but in reality getting traditional dino ones). Let's say all of those things align, which should be unquestionably true, dealers still juice you on parts prices (by a fair amount).

That said, I just don't know. I've expressed elsewhere that I fear BMW dealership partnerships for a number of reasons (see the preceding paragraphs), one of which the association of the Grenadier as a "premium" vehicle. That is, I see associating IA with any up-market auto dealer will lead to increased pricing for sales, service, and parts above what other dealers are ripping you off for. I am not looking for the "I bought a luxury car experience" which in the States means stuffy staff in three-piece fancy suit and tie, cappuccinos-lattes-frappa-whatevers on offer, and general snobbishness. That's not me.

I am hoping for interaction and meaningful conversation with someone equally excited about the product as I am. I don't want to feel like I've purchased a BMW or Mercedes any more that a Civic or Focus because I've actually purchased a very unique, niche product whose very existence is built upon passion. I prefer to feel like I'm sitting around a table AT the Grenadier Pub, not a car dealership. I remember US Land Rover dealerships back in the day before they got all hoity-toity, the sales reps were knowledgeable, not just about the features of the vehicle, but they also knew and appreciated the history and ethos of the brand. The walls were festooned with photographs of the Camel Trophy instead of art-gallery stuff. Heck, the employees even dressed the part by wearing normal, I-go-outside clothes (cargo khakis, hiking boots, wool sweaters, etc) instead of swanky shoes and silk ties. But, at the same time, it wasn't cheesy or fake but felt authentic. I can't speak for elsewhere in the world, but I can't imagine current USA LR sales people familiar with the Wilkes brothers, or Solihull, or that epic little road trip that began in Cambridge.

Forgive the babbling drivel, I'm just a bit passionate on the subject.
 
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I have a deere, bought online, but serviced through my local place, and my local dealer has been great. They've gone out of their way to help me fix and replace things that I've screwed up as a novice tractor owner. I never sensed that they intended to do all the repair work and maintenance on my tractor, rather they've been great at trying to find exact parts to replace stuff I've damaged.
 
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That's a fine point about Right to Repair (in fact I just read that an 11th state has started to design legislation to prevent the restrictive practices - DENVER POST). But in some ways, that's a corporate philosophy and mandate, and hopefully not that of the JD dealers and employees themselves.

This is a fantastic conversation and one that I am glad @SteBay711 has started. My collective dealership experiences over the last 29 years have been more negative than positive with respect to sales, service, and overall satisfaction with the customer experience. That said, I've only purchased cars and trucks from blue collar brands, and never farm equipment, motorcycles, or anything else; perhaps those dealers provide a better experience. When you remove the greedy cash grab "market adjustments," tack-on bullshit money grabs (ie "undercoating," scotch guard, pin-striping, door edge protectors, etc, extended warranty and finance shadiness, and hawkish, over-aggressive sales tactics from car dealerships - what's left? On the sales side, that's all there seems to be. Well, maybe some ill-informed sales people who do not even know the product they're selling too.

Service wise, you hope that the mechanics are well-trained and certified by their respective brands (I know that BMW has some fantastic training programs), you hope that the services they claim you need are in fact legitimate and required, and finally, you hope that they're doing what they say they are (ie giving me the full synthetic fluids I've paid for but in reality getting traditional dino ones). Let's say all of those things align, which should be unquestionably true, dealers still juice you on parts prices (by a fair amount).

That said, I just don't know. I've expressed elsewhere that I fear BMW dealership partnerships for a number of reasons (see the preceding paragraphs), one of which the association of the Grenadier as a "premium" vehicle. That is, I see associating IA with any up-market auto dealer will lead to increased pricing for sales, service, and parts above what other dealers are ripping you off for. I am not looking for the "I bought a luxury car experience" which in the States means stuffy staff in three-piece fancy suit and tie, cappuccinos-lattes-frappa-whatevers on offer, and general snobbishness. That's not me.

I am hoping for interaction and meaningful conversation with someone equally excited about the product as I am. I don't want to feel like I've purchased a BMW or Mercedes any more that a Civic or Focus because I've actually purchased a very unique, niche product whose very existence is built upon passion. I prefer to feel like I'm sitting around a table AT the Grenadier Pub, not a car dealership. I remember US Land Rover dealerships back in the day before they got all hoity-toity, the sales reps were knowledgeable, not just about the features of the vehicle, but they also knew and appreciated the history and ethos of the brand. The walls were festooned with photographs of the Camel Trophy instead of art-gallery stuff. Heck, the employees even dressed the part by wearing normal, I-go-outside clothes (cargo khakis, hiking boots, wool sweaters, etc) instead of swanky shoes and silk ties. But, at the same time, it wasn't cheesy or fake but felt authentic. I can't speak for elsewhere in the world, but I can't imagine current USA LR sales people familiar with the Wilkes brothers, or Solihull, or that epic little road trip that began in Cambridge.

Forgive the babbling drivel, I'm just a bit passionate on the subject.
Ah yes I remember a local LR went upscale, outfitting the service manager and front of office service types in brand new hiking shorts, knobby boots, heavy wool socks and fleece shirts and mounting a canoe on the wall. It was all down hill from there.
 

Stu_Barnes

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Actually the USA without Alaska is only 3.12 million sq. Miles, so about the same size as Australia.

And don’t tell them we have 5 states bigger than Texas, because they won’t believe you. 😉😂😂


Sorry for the hijack gents. 😁
Actually the USA without Alaska is only 3.12 million sq. Miles, so about the same size as Australia.

And don’t tell them we have 5 states bigger than Texas, because they won’t believe you. 😉😂😂


Sorry for the hijack gents. 😁
Yep. I forgot to include Canada. Sorry Canada, it was late at night and now it’s early in the morning. How much more can I mess up :)
 

Krabby

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Do we know if IA plans to select the same partners for both US and Can? If it was someone like BMW.
 

Krabby

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What local USA dealer(s) (name/location) would you nominate to be a Grenadier dealership? Please explain why they would be a good choice (service, staff, location, 4x4 oriented, etc.). Obviously larger, multi-franchise, brand name dealers make sense, not the smaller <50 car sales per year type dealers.
I just reread @SteBay711 post. I spoke very broadly about my dealership outlook, but I think the conversation is meant to be more focused.

If I were nominating a specific dealership/group close to me, of a larger size and traditional cars/trucks, the Toms River NJ VW folks have been wonderful to my brother. They’ve purchased 3 cars from them, were treated well during the purchases and have spoken highly of their service department. I doubt IA would select VW as a direct partner, but they’re good people afaik. I’d take my truck there for service amongst the local dealerships.

I’ll be the first to bite my tongue and avoid starting a people we don’t want thread (cough, cough, Causeway Ford Manahawkin, cough cough).
 

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That said, I just don't know. I've expressed elsewhere that I fear BMW dealership partnerships for a number of reasons (see the preceding paragraphs), one of which the association of the Grenadier as a "premium" vehicle. That is, I see associating IA with any up-market auto dealer will lead to increased pricing for sales, service, and parts above what other dealers are ripping you off for. I am not looking for the "I bought a luxury car experience" which in the States means stuffy staff in three-piece fancy suit and tie, cappuccinos-lattes-frappa-whatevers on offer, and general snobbishness. That's not me.

I am hoping for interaction and meaningful conversation with someone equally excited about the product as I am. I don't want to feel like I've purchased a BMW or Mercedes any more that a Civic or Focus because I've actually purchased a very unique, niche product whose very existence is built upon passion. I prefer to feel like I'm sitting around a table AT the Grenadier Pub, not a car dealership. I remember US Land Rover dealerships back in the day before they got all hoity-toity, the sales reps were knowledgeable, not just about the features of the vehicle, but they also knew and appreciated the history and ethos of the brand. The walls were festooned with photographs of the Camel Trophy instead of art-gallery stuff. Heck, the employees even dressed the part by wearing normal, I-go-outside clothes (cargo khakis, hiking boots, wool sweaters, etc) instead of swanky shoes and silk ties. But, at the same time, it wasn't cheesy or fake but felt authentic. I can't speak for elsewhere in the world, but I can't imagine current USA LR sales people familiar with the Wilkes brothers, or Solihull, or that epic little road trip that began in Cambridge.

Here, here. Well said @Krabby.

To be sure, IA is at another critical juncture in the process - choosing the right dealership partners. I believe IA wants exactly what you describe. Like any business, you have the good operators and bad ones. Finding the good ones that genuinely understand and align with IA's values/vision is a tough job for their network development team. It will set the tone of the launch and determine the future value of the brand.

There is a point when dealer groups grow too big and corporate mentality takes over, when responsibilities shift to shareholders rather than customers. The BMW engine should not be a golden ticket for BMW dealers to get this franchise. Of the 17 UK dealerships that I checked, only 5 had a BMW franchise, so it is clearly not a pre-req. I do question heavy equipment dealers selling/servicing the vehicle, given their predominate structure of B2B sales operations. It's a big transition to start focusing on consumer clients rather than business. I'm eager to find out who they choose.
 
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