vs. Bronco

[Ineosguy]

Just bought a 2021 Bronco and trying to remind myself of my justification for a Grenadier. 

The draw of the Defender was the 3-across seating in the first row (option), which I will always love, and then it was natural to be disatisfied with the Defender and gravitate towards the purity of the Grenadier vision.  Congrats to all involved on bringing it to life, but now that I have a 4x4 van with sleeping quarters and a true offroad open-air optional vehicle, I can't really fit the Grenadier in anywhere.   It's a shame b/c it's truly beautiful.

Anyways, trying to talk myself into or out of nixing my reservation, and thought I would just write this out here, in case you gentlemen / ladies have ideas. 

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Before cancelling any reservation I’d at least have a test drive to see if it compares to the Bronco for your requirements assuming that’s possible.  
With regards to the Bronco v Gren then in North America I think the Bronco will be the easier vehicle to live with as far as servicing and operation goes. Especially if you use the dealer network. This is excluding vehicle reliability as it’s probably too early to tell on the Bronco and definitely on the Gren.  As far as pricing of parts I’m willing to bet that the Ford components will be somewhat cheaper than BMW or INEOS. The aftermarket definitely will be more active and possibly cheaper for the Bronco than the Gren  For initial purchase cost that can be all over the place, there’s been significant gouging on the Bronco to date, I’ve three friends that have been victim of that and have cancelled their order. Let’s see how things go in that regard with the sales network INEOS are putting together. The one thing that the Bronco has is the different specs of vehicle that you can order, INEOS basically in North America at least is a one trick pony, one engine and one body style, with only an option of diff locks front and rear or not. Interestingly enough the “register your interest” has popped up for the double cab pickup for the NA market. 
Finishing this ramble of mine, you have a Bronco already. Use it and enjoy it. If you try a Gren and like it then go from there. At least that’s what I’d do. 

 

[4/3rds]

I’ve had my Bronco (4 Door) since June and I also have a new Defender 110. I’m expecting the Grenadier to be closer to the 110 in quality than the Bronco. Although the Bronco is fun and looks great the quality control is questionable. The Bronco6g forum has many examples of failed engines, failing brakes, mismatched interiors, poor paint, etc. I’m not trying to bash Ford at all and I will keep my Bronco for quite awhile but the Grenadier appears to be a superior vehicle in every way.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

The new Bronco has had a number of teething issues - probably not more or less than any other vehicle, but the nature of the Bronco suggests that there may be some issues that do not arise on solid topped rigs; it took Jeep a really long time (up until the JK, really, and not even then in some cases in the early years) to perfect the waterproofness of the removable top, for instance. It stands to reason that there will be some iteration in the design of the bronco, too.

I don't think the Gren will have the same level of challenges, because it's using tried and true (and common) designs. It's not hard to make a waterproof window in the same way that it is/can be hard to make a waterproof, multi-configurable, removable top, for instance.

My family is currently evaluating the Ford Transit AWD option for a van build. I'd like to get more understanding of how they are off road, but we're seriously considering going that route for living and travelling full time. Our current rig is perfect, but it does represent challenges with any travel for the winter months that the van would help mitigate. The Gren for us is intended to be an RTW vehicle, not just a fun 4x4, so we're thinking of a van for the next few years of living/travelling full time then transitioning back to the Gren once we've seen what we want to see in North America. The intention would be to not have a formal house during this time and live mobile for the next 5-10 years, and so the timing of the Gren might actually work out well for us.

I would say that the Gren and the Bronco are intended to do different things. The Grenadier sits in between "Lifestyle" 4x4s and "Commercial" trucks - just like the old Defender did; the Bronco is firmly in the "Lifestyle" 4x4 category. If you don't need the more robust build and capability because your van is your Overland rig, the Bronco might be adequate. I would agree with what Stu said in that regard - use the Bronco, enjoy it, and reevaluate. But I wouldn't cancel the reservation unless you're really short for $450 bucks. That's a relatively small amount of money amortized over the next few years, and it gives you options as it will hold your spot in line. If you cancel now, and find the bronco and van combo are no longer meeting your needs, I suspect you may find a year or two \tacked on the availability of the Gren if you lose your spot in line, or the price premiums that Stu mentioned.

 

[4/3rds]

Good perspective. Honestly there is a part of me that loves to have a vehicle that people don’t see everyday. Not that I want attention just love to see people get excited about it. My family and I jokingly call it “spreading joy”.?

 

[Ineosguy]

Thanks Greg and Stu.  Agreed on these points.  I also have an F150 on order, and these thoughts are just a reminder that there are advantages to each, and it really comes down to one's individual needs... or, more difficult, to my needs that particular day.  It would be nice to have a Gren that had 3 seats across and a removeable roof, but if I had it, I'd probably still be looking over its shoulder at the F150's 7200W AC power supply in the bed.    I also still love my Tahoe.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

There is a mathematical formula for determining the correct number of motorcycles for any application. And I think it applies to 4x4s too:

N + 1 = Correct Number of Bikes/4x4s

(The N variable represents the number you have right now).

[QUOTE username=Greg  4/3rds userid=8441884 postid=1330903011]Good perspective. Honestly there is a part of me that loves to have a vehicle that people don’t see everyday. Not that I want attention just love to see people get excited about it. My family and I jokingly call it “spreading joy”.?[/QUOTE]

This is a huge part of it for me. I want a rig that brings me joy. It's the second most expensive thing most people buy in their lives, and should be treated as such in terms of how we want to spend our limited resources - certainly not on something we don't love. Whether you are using it for a few minutes a day or for a full 8-hour trip day in and day out, if it doesn't put a smile on your face everytime you drive it, it is a waste of the most precious resource of all - your time. "Smiles per Hour" is way more important a metric than I think most people consider when purchasing a vehicle. It's also why I'm hesitating on a the Transit van - I am worried about it's off-road capability. I love seeing a cutaway or a dirt track as I'm on a trip and saying "Hey I wonder what's down there". My current rig and the Gren both allow me the freedom to find out. The transit is less likely to do so, so that means fewer "smiles per hour". My old jeep and, similarly, the Bronco, don't just bring smiles to me - they bring it to those who like this stuff too, and there are a lot of people. Spreading joy is absolutely an important part of the car buying experience!

 

[Ineosguy]

Love it @ChasingOurTrunks.  Good way of looking at things.   My tahoe is everything I need out of a vehicle, but prob low on the smiles/hour scale.  I fortunately have a wife who's agreed for the bronco to be her DD, so I'll have the luxury of an extra cool rig around the house, whatever I decide for my DD. 

 

[PL1]

@ChasingOurTrunks   I like your math - N + (several) for me applies to mountain bikes and skis...  and tennis racquets if I'm being honest.  My rational for a Grenadier is "One SUV to rule them all."   Apologies to JRR Tolkein & Peter Jackson.  ?

 

[Spjnr]

Don't get the Bronco over here in the UK, but the jeep wrangler is a close comparison, and a vehicle I owned for 8 years! (Also spent a lot of time in and around the newer JL)

I think the biggest difference is versatility and use case. For me, the ability to tow 3.5 tons is quite a high priority, and something the Jeep (and bronco) can't do, even towing 2.5 tons isn't great in the wranglers. So the grenadier gives me that, without sacrificing offroad ability, and general fun factor. 

The Grenadier bridges the gap between personal adventure vehicle and work truck, in a way nothing else currently available does. With maybe the exception of the 76 series LC, which we also don't get... ?
I have no need for a removable roof or doors (done it in my Jeep and it soon gets old, especially in UK weather

), and that just makes day to day usage more difficult. For instance the hardtop on the jeep and bronco only allow for a specific rear door setup, and internal roll bars that are awkward in day to day life. The Grenadiers split rear door is one of my favourite features.

This trend follows through the Grenadier, and imo makes it less gimmicky and toy-like compared to the other 2.

(That may sound like I'm a jeep/bronco hater but I'm really not! Got a lot of love for both vehicles!)

 

[Ineosguy]

After one month of Bronco ownership in a temperate climate (and former FJ40), I can corroborate the roof-off feature is rarely used (but still cool).   I, too, appreciate the towing capacity, and in that regard, my Tahoe matches the Grenadier.   I will check out the rear-door setup, as one of my top 3 features on my tahoe are the ability to access the rear with the garage down, via the top-half opening (glass).  I hated the GX470 side-opening, but if the "small side" of the Gren opens first, that would be a cool feature.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone-- still haven't found a specific killer / unique feature of the Gren not present in my other options.... but appreciate it's a total vehicle thing. 

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

After one month of Bronco ownership in a temperate climate (and former FJ40), I can corroborate the roof-off feature is rarely used (but still cool).   I, too, appreciate the towing capacity, and in that regard, my Tahoe matches the Grenadier.   I will check out the rear-door setup, as one of my top 3 features on my tahoe are the ability to access the rear with the garage down, via the top-half opening (glass).  I hated the GX470 side-opening, but if the "small side" of the Gren opens first, that would be a cool feature.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone-- still haven't found a specific killer / unique feature of the Gren not present in my other options.... but appreciate it's a total vehicle thing. 

The small rear door is designed specifically for the scenario you describe (It's to get access in cramped car parks) and I can confirm based on the videos I've seen it does open first. 

As for a killer feature...saddle leader steering wheel, maybe, if that's your thing? ?

 

[Ineosguy]

[QUOTE username=Greg  4/3rds userid=8441884 postid=1330902471]I’ve had my Bronco (4 Door) since June and I also have a new Defender 110. I’m expecting the Grenadier to be closer to the 110 in quality than the Bronco. Although the Bronco is fun and looks great the quality control is questionable. The Bronco6g forum has many examples of failed engines, failing brakes, mismatched interiors, poor paint, etc. I’m not trying to bash Ford at all and I will keep my Bronco for quite awhile but the Grenadier appears to be a superior vehicle in every way.[/QUOTE]

Greg, how do you like your Defender?  I test drove one and didn't fall in love like I thought I might.  The coolest part for me would be the front jumpseat (which I'd have to special order just to see in the flesh), but they didn't allow that option combined with the 3rd-row seats (so hard to justify the upgrade from my 9-seat Tahoe for flexibility, despite more smiles per hour, style-wise).

And as a general update, I sold the Bronco (as Spjnr said, the roofless factor lost its novelty quick). Keeping my Gren reservation for now.  May splurge on an F150 in the mean time if I run out of things to distract myself with.

 

[4/3rds]

Honestly I like it more than any other daily driver I’ve ever owned and I’ve had a lot. The Bronco is a bit of a novelty at this point. I’ll drive it more when the weather is warmer. The Defender is great all purpose SUV. 

 

[Spjnr]

Greg, how do you like your Defender?  I test drove one and didn't fall in love like I thought I might.  The coolest part for me would be the front jumpseat (which I'd have to special order just to see in the flesh), but they didn't allow that option combined with the 3rd-row seats (so hard to justify the upgrade from my 9-seat Tahoe for flexibility, despite more smiles per hour, style-wise).

And as a general update, I sold the Bronco (as Spjnr said, the roofless factor lost its novelty quick). Keeping my Gren reservation for now.  May splurge on an F150 in the mean time if I run out of things to distract myself with.

Interesting to hear you sold the Bronco. Needless to say, I bet you didn't lose a penny on it in this market!

 

[Ineosguy]

Greg, that's good to know-- thanks.  Will keep the Defender on the maybe list long term.
Spjnr, yeah, didn't lose money.  Maybe lost some hair wrestling with the decision. 

 

[DCPU]

The new Bronco has had a number of teething issues

Not sure if this can still be called a teething issue:

"Catastrophic Engine Failures in 2021 Ford Broncos"

Catastrophic engine failures in 2021 Ford Broncos — Exploring Overland

I’m really glad this didn’t happen to the Bronco I reviewed earlier this year. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is investigating a series of engine failures in 2021 Ford Broncos equipped with the 2.7-liter V6 engine. The issue (according to Ford) apparently involves faulty valve k

www.exploringoverland.com

 

[bemax]

"...abrupt losses of power in their new V6 Broncos—undoubtedly accompanied by predictably unpleasant noises."
unpleasent noises sounds a litte bit eupemistic to me

 

[stickshifter]

The 2.7 Ecoboost (turbo-charged V6) first came out in 2015, and then received an update in 2018. It has been used since 2015 in the F-150 full-size pickup truck with no reports of the failures we are seeing today in the Bronco. In fact, it was considered extremely reliable, and really powerful for its size. A lot of buyers moved away from the 5.0 NA V8 and opted for the 2.7 Ecoboost for its low-end torque and its quick throttle response.

Disruptions to the global supply chain during the Covid pandemic forced Ford to find a new supplier of valves, and these have been of poor quality. These valves are the cause of engine failures you are hearing about.

A second issue is that Ford has not adequately protected the oil pan with a skid-plate. This wasn't a problem in the F-150 because most people don't drive those trucks in the rocks (too big, and not the truck's purpose). But the Bronco is being driven on rocky trails, and there are some reports of trail damage to the oil pan. This second problem is clearly an oversight by Ford, but should be easily addressed.

If you are emotionally attached to some other brand, you will take pleasure in these problems, and if you are a Ford fanboy, you will brush them off as insignificant. I think most people fall somewhere in the middle, and recognize that new models can have some teething problems, and that the pandemic has created real challenges to global production. Fortunately for most Ford owners in the U.S. there is a Ford dealership not too far from where they live.

Source: https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/ford-bronco-engine-failures-stem-from-two-problem-areas-report/
Source: https://fordauthority.com/2022/06/ford-bronco-2-7l-v6-ecoboost-engine-failures-explained-exclusive/

 

[DCPU]

I don't follow any Bronco forums but did the overheating issues experienced by journalists ever carry over to actual customers?

Multiple Ford Bronco Sports Overheated Off-Road. Let's Talk About It

Ford advertises the 2021 Ford Bronco Sport as an off-road beast, boasting of “unrelenting Bronco capability,” and saying that the new Ford Escape-based SUV “delivers the 4x4 off-road capability that made the original Bronco a legend.” Plus: “For maximum off-road capability and long-term...

jalopnik.com