Vibration

[Marvo]

Is anyone here an expert in sorting out vibrations? I have the base model diesel and at around 8000 kms, a mild vibration, which I can feel up through e.g. the seat, steering wheel, handbrake, developed during acceleration which I can feel on smooth roads in the 1800-2100 rpm range. It's not there when I rev while stationary. I've been underneath a few times to look for something loose but other than flimsy heat shields, nothing untoward. It seems a bit harsher than a heat shield buzzing but that's what it may well be. Dealer had a go at trying to find it but nothing definitive after fiddling with some of the underbody cables & heat shields. There's a lot of heat shielding compared to an old Hilux. Doesn't seem like an engine thing. I haven't done any mods & it's essentially as delivered. Smooth as can be, say when the revs lower to 1500 rpm at a stable speed. Any thoughts about where it could be coming from? I'm really hoping it's not something gearbox or driveline related (how do you test that without pulling things apart and replacing parts?)...? Suggestions appreciated.

 

[Shopkeep]

Is anyone here an expert in sorting out vibrations? I have the base model diesel and at around 8000 kms, a mild vibration, which I can feel up through e.g. the seat, steering wheel, handbrake, developed during acceleration which I can feel on smooth roads in the 1800-2100 rpm range. It's not there when I rev while stationary. I've been underneath a few times to look for something loose but other than flimsy heat shields, nothing untoward. It seems a bit harsher than a heat shield buzzing but that's what it may well be. Dealer had a go at trying to find it but nothing definitive after fiddling with some of the underbody cables & heat shields. There's a lot of heat shielding compared to an old Hilux. Doesn't seem like an engine thing. I haven't done any mods & it's essentially as delivered. Smooth as can be, say when the revs lower to 1500 rpm at a stable speed. Any thoughts about where it could be coming from? I'm really hoping it's not something gearbox or driveline related (how do you test that without pulling things apart and replacing parts?)...? Suggestions appreciated.

I have been very happy with my diesel Grenadier but have always had various vibrations through the rev range which I just put up with (thought it was part of the character of the diesel). After approx 9000kms and 8 months of ownership I booked it in to get the software update and all outstanding service campaigns done, I also asked for them to check the heat shields and look into the vibrations plus the steering alignment (due to off center steering wheel). While I was a bit shitty it took three days the car I picked up was vastly improved, like a completely different vehicle. Almost all the vibrations are gone, it is much quieter overall especially during acceleration and feels much tighter and more polished. All I can suggest is make sure you get all service campaigns done and get your dealer to go over all the heat shields thoroughly again or maybe try a different dealer if there is another within cooee of you (FWIW my dealer is Brighton in Vic).

 

[Tinerfeño]

It is impossible to give a precise answer. But here are some ideas:

• If it is throttle-related (i.e. more vibrations when more load) it usually is powertrain. With solid axles there are only propshafts (Am. drive shafts) that could cause it.
• If it's only related to speed, I would look at the suspension: bushes, bolts, ball joints.
• If it is clearly in the front (felt in steering wheel) I would look at front axle brakes, suspension and steering joints.
• There has been one incedent where it was aerodynamics: roof rack or other external equipment can cause vibrations.
• Also suspension lift is possible cause, I have a 3D Range Rover -80 that has been lifted 80 mm and it becomes aerodynamically unstable above 120 km/h but this is not vibrations but more body movement.

Heat shields rattle but can't cause vibrations.
Tyre imbalance is possible but very rare cause. If balance weightshave been lost (possible if driven off-road) then possible. And if there is external stuff on one or more wheels it most probably is the cause.

 

[Marvo]

It is impossible to give a precise answer. But here are some ideas:

• If it is throttle-related (i.e. more vibrations when more load) it usually is powertrain. With solid axles there are only propshafts (Am. drive shafts) that could cause it.
• If it's only related to speed, I would look at the suspension: bushes, bolts, ball joints.
• If it is clearly in the front (felt in steering wheel) I would look at front axle brakes, suspension and steering joints.
• There has been one incedent where it was aerodynamics: roof rack or other external equipment can cause vibrations.
• Also suspension lift is possible cause, I have a 3D Range Rover -80 that has been lifted 80 mm and it becomes aerodynamically unstable above 120 km/h but this is not vibrations but more body movement.

Heat shields rattle but can't cause vibrations.
Tyre imbalance is possible but very rare cause. If balance weightshave been lost (possible if driven off-road) then possible. And if there is external stuff on one or more wheels it most probably is the cause.

Thanks for your ideas although my explanation is pretty clear when the vibration/resonance occurs. I think you'll find there are some heat shields that aren't in any way loose but, if you give them a flick, vibrate like a tuning fork. I think if heat shields are touching something, that could be the cause. I'm hoping it's nothing to do with the drivetrain & I wouldn't know to check that.

 

[Marvo]

I have been very happy with my diesel Grenadier but have always had various vibrations through the rev range which I just put up with (thought it was part of the character of the diesel). After approx 9000kms and 8 months of ownership I booked it in to get the software update and all outstanding service campaigns done, I also asked for them to check the heat shields and look into the vibrations plus the steering alignment (due to off center steering wheel). While I was a bit shitty it took three days the car I picked up was vastly improved, like a completely different vehicle. Almost all the vibrations are gone, it is much quieter overall especially during acceleration and feels much tighter and more polished. All I can suggest is make sure you get all service campaigns done and get your dealer to go over all the heat shields thoroughly again or maybe try a different dealer if there is another within cooee of you (FWIW my dealer is Brighton in Vic).

Thanks for your thoughts. I explained it all to the dealer & I guess it may also be a mystery to them (to be fair, it could take a mechanic a week full-time to locate it). Other than the vibration, she drives perfect. Never had any issues with wheels or steering etc..

 

[Tinerfeño]

if you give them a flick, vibrate like a tuning fork.

But can't vibrate entire car.

 

[Skydance]

There are essentially couple of areas where vibration can occur. The root cause of the vibration from this diesel engine cannot be completely eliminated, apparently it is a characteristic of the heavy-duty engine.

However you can reduce the metallic vibration to almost 95% perfect. One being the airbox (this is where you feel it in the steering/pedals because its right in front of you). One right next to the fuel tank. There is a gap in between the fuel tank and skid plate. Shove a long narrow stick and bend the heat shield so it doesn't contact the skid plate next to it. Also have a look at the heat shield around the rear muffler.

Other areas (unrelated) is to look at the rear jack. Put foam behind it and fasten strap tightly. If you have a dealer fit camping table, put vibration/fabric tape on the outside/inside of the arms which clang over bumps.

Its taken a whole year to solve everything myself and runs perfectly with no vibrations. Only the odd occasion under load.

 

[Tinerfeño]

The root cause of the vibration from this diesel engine cannot be completely eliminated, apparently it is a characteristic of the heavy-duty engine.

Inline 6-cylinder 4-stroke engine, diesel or petrol, is by itself mechanically balanced against 1st and 2nd order mass forces and torques. I very much doubt that origin is engine mechanics.
Fuel system problems can cause uneven torque on crankshaft but these should rise fault codes as ECU can detect rotational speed differences between ignition cycles (every 60 degrees). These cycles are close enough to keep positive torque on crankshaft at any point.
Mass balance and positive torque makes it is one of the best engine configurations.

 

[Skydance]

Inline 6-cylinder 4-stroke engine, diesel or petrol, is by itself mechanically balanced against 1st and 2nd order mass forces and torques. I very much doubt that origin is engine mechanics.
Fuel system problems can cause uneven torque on crankshaft but these should rise fault codes as ECU can detect rotational speed differences between ignition cycles (every 60 degrees). These cycles are close enough to keep positive torque on crankshaft at any point.
Mass balance and positive torque makes it is one of the best engine configurations.

I'm not an engineer, I'm just repeating what the Ineos area technician said to me and there are many of us who own the diesel which have this small vibration (some worse than others, I even had it on a 24 model courtesy vehicle which I had for a couple of days). Couple of people have mentioned the engine mounts being heavy-duty which is the most likely. I've owned two previous X5 3.0 diesels and they where both silky smooth so I don't think its the engine too.

 

[G-Man]

I'll back @Skydance up here: I have the diesel drivetrain vibration between 1800-2000rpm too and it's a well known phenomenon. It's most noticeable when the engine is cold and barely there once the vehicle is up to temperature, which suggests it's not simply down to engine RPM. Maybe the engine mounts soften up and do a better job of damping vibration once the engine bay has warmed up.

The local Ineos service centre had my vehicle in for some snagging issues at the start of the month and 'tuned' all the heatshields which made a big difference. The mechanic said that Ineos is aware of the issue and is looking for a fix, but in the meantime tweaking the heatshields was the best solution that they could offer.

 

[Marvo]

But can't vibrate entire car.

It's not necessarily 'vibrating' the whole car, rather, as mentioned, I can 'feel' a particular vibration.

 

[Marvo]

There are essentially couple of areas where vibration can occur. The root cause of the vibration from this diesel engine cannot be completely eliminated, apparently it is a characteristic of the heavy-duty engine.

However you can reduce the metallic vibration to almost 95% perfect. One being the airbox (this is where you feel it in the steering/pedals because its right in front of you). One right next to the fuel tank. There is a gap in between the fuel tank and skid plate. Shove a long narrow stick and bend the heat shield so it doesn't contact the skid plate next to it. Also have a look at the heat shield around the rear muffler.

Other areas (unrelated) is to look at the rear jack. Put foam behind it and fasten strap tightly. If you have a dealer fit camping table, put vibration/fabric tape on the outside/inside of the arms which clang over bumps.

Its taken a whole year to solve everything myself and runs perfectly with no vibrations. Only the odd occasion under load.

Thanks, I think the heat shielding around the rear exhaust area is a possibility, as is the airbox...might take me a while to figure out. As mentioned, it only started recently so something may have worked itself loose or into a new position. Likewise, I've already dealt with the jack, although it was more an obvious metal clanking that was easy to isolate!

 

[Skydance]

Thanks, I think the heat shielding around the rear exhaust area is a possibility, as is the airbox...might take me a while to figure out. As mentioned, it only started recently so something may have worked itself loose or into a new position. Likewise, I've already dealt with the jack, although it was more an obvious metal clanking that was easy to isolate!

My advice is to use the palm of your hand to bang on the airbox. If it clangs then bend the heat shield particular at the top and at the bottom. Note on the top, there is a metal clip which comes into contact on the other side so the trick is use keep using your palm to test.

 

[Marvo]

My advice is to use the palm of your hand to bang on the airbox. If it clangs then bend the heat shield particular at the top and at the bottom. Note on the top, there is a metal clip which comes into contact on the other side so the trick is use keep using your palm to test.

I had a look & feel around the engine bay today while I had someone revving the engine say between 1200 up to 2500rpm but again, nothing conclusive. I can feel a bit of vibration throughout, so it may take a while to find a cause that can be rectified, if ever.

 

[Korg]

Is anyone here an expert in sorting out vibrations? I have the base model diesel and at around 8000 kms, a mild vibration, which I can feel up through e.g. the seat, steering wheel, handbrake, developed during acceleration which I can feel on smooth roads in the 1800-2100 rpm range. It's not there when I rev while stationary. I've been underneath a few times to look for something loose but other than flimsy heat shields, nothing untoward. It seems a bit harsher than a heat shield buzzing but that's what it may well be. Dealer had a go at trying to find it but nothing definitive after fiddling with some of the underbody cables & heat shields. There's a lot of heat shielding compared to an old Hilux. Doesn't seem like an engine thing. I haven't done any mods & it's essentially as delivered. Smooth as can be, say when the revs lower to 1500 rpm at a stable speed. Any thoughts about where it could be coming from? I'm really hoping it's not something gearbox or driveline related (how do you test that without pulling things apart and replacing parts?)...? Suggestions appreciated.

Wheel out of balance?

 

[Marvo]

Wheel out of balance?

I think that would be related to speed rather than engine rpm. I suspect rather that when the engine revs it causes vibrations somewhere (if it's not the engine itself vibrating - seems rougher than my hilux). I don't think it's in the driveline, as it's smoother either side of 18-2100 rpm, although I wouldn't rule anything out just yet.

 

[Nocrays]

I think that would be related to speed rather than engine rpm. I suspect rather that when the engine revs it causes vibrations somewhere (if it's not the engine itself vibrating - seems rougher than my hilux). I don't think it's in the driveline, as it's smoother either side of 18-2100 rpm, although I wouldn't rule anything out just yet.

Hi Marvo - Sounds like I have the same issue as you. I have a Wolfbox rear camera fitted to the rear bumper which really visually shows up the vibration.

When I first had the vehicle I did not notice it, but after the faulty transfer case was replaced it has become quite very obvious. Same as you 1700-2000 rpm and underload. It sits at the 100 – 110kph speed range in 8th gear, so is with you all the time in cruise.

If I back off (reduce load) the vibration goes away.

To add to this, I had a loan car for 6 months that was faultless – so I know what good should look like.

Ive check all the heat shields and doesn’t make any difference.