Trial Master and a Conquerer 490

[NomadJS]

I was wondering if anyone has any personal experience towing the Conquerer UEV 490 with the TrialMaster; if so I was wondering what your pro's and con's might be?

Thanks!


Exterior Length 5140mm
Exterior Width 2045mm
Exterior Height 2245mm
Suspension2.5t Independent
Tare1380kg
GVM1800kg

 

[bemax]

Have a look at this test. One of the trailers seems to be quite similar.

View: https://youtu.be/dTcSRFjsVT8?si=uwZfaiWgCYEERzCG

 

[NomadJS]

Have a look at this test. One of the trailers seems to be quite similar.

View: https://youtu.be/dTcSRFjsVT8?si=uwZfaiWgCYEERzCG

Thanks, I will watch this in the morning. Appreciate it!

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

I hate puff pieces.

Doesn’t anybody care about anything but their fuel economy when towing?
Is this gas motor going to make it past the warranty towing 7000lbs?

If you’re going to do any distance towing, I need to know whether this thing can stop you when you’re going down a hill? Or is it going to overheat the fancy 10 speed transmission? How high does the engine temperature get when you’re pulling this thing up a hill in the summertime?
Cripes, there are 25 different Internet personalities that have been handed one of these trucks to take them for a ride, and not a single swinging dick has hooked the trailer on it and said “OK these are the numbers that the load generates in these conditions”.
Am I going to smoke the engine, or the trans? when I drag my trailer past Flagstaff or Steamboat? Will I be able to stop?

 

[ADVAW8S]

I hate puff pieces.

Doesn’t anybody care about anything but their fuel economy when towing?
Is this gas motor going to make it past the warranty towing 7000lbs?

If you’re going to do any distance towing, I need to know whether this thing can stop you when you’re going down a hill? Or is it going to overheat the fancy 10 speed transmission? How high does the engine temperature get when you’re pulling this thing up a hill in the summertime?
Cripes, there are 25 different Internet personalities that have been handed one of these trucks to take them for a ride, and not a single swinging dick has hooked the trailer on it and said “OK these are the numbers that the load generates in these conditions”.
Am I going to smoke the engine, or the trans? when I drag my trailer past Flagstaff or Steamboat? Will I be able to stop?

Give it time and cruisemaster probably will do a video.

 

[FlyingTexan]

I hate puff pieces.

Doesn’t anybody care about anything but their fuel economy when towing?
Is this gas motor going to make it past the warranty towing 7000lbs?

If you’re going to do any distance towing, I need to know whether this thing can stop you when you’re going down a hill? Or is it going to overheat the fancy 10 speed transmission? How high does the engine temperature get when you’re pulling this thing up a hill in the summertime?
Cripes, there are 25 different Internet personalities that have been handed one of these trucks to take them for a ride, and not a single swinging dick has hooked the trailer on it and said “OK these are the numbers that the load generates in these conditions”.
Am I going to smoke the engine, or the trans? when I drag my trailer past Flagstaff or Steamboat? Will I be able to stop?

Well to answer this is to go out and try to break the drive train which is a bit ridiculous. Those things you find out through trial and error. In general, yes, the engine should be perfectly fine. It’s why it’s detuned to start with. The rest should be the knowledge of the driver. This isn’t an 18 wheeler so engine breaking a 7000lb trailer on the downhill is foolish to start with and if you’re going to do that you’re going to rag on the drivetrain when you should be using trailer brakes to start with. They’re there for a reason. This vehicle has a towing limit of 7800lbs but that isn’t a full time duty limit. If you want something to tow 7800lbs all day then get a 3/4ton diesel. What conditions and loads are to your satisfaction? Have you read the manual on towing? It states to move around at max load to use low gear. Are you willing to do that or are you thinking you can take 7800lbs at 75mph up a steep grade? These vehicles are just starting to be released in the US, when was someone supposed to test in the summer to have your conditions met? Are you willing for take yours off the lot and try to go blow the drivetrain apart? It’s not like they’re given free reign of a Grenadier to damage as much as they can. So far there have been no complaints of drive train temps. There’s more coolers under the radiator and to the sides of the bumper for tranny cooling. More so than any other vehicle I’ve ever owned or towed with. But if you’re going to be towing full time at max gross weight and want any sort of performance doing so then you’re greatly in the wrong market.

Tow rating is determined by SAE J2807. 0 to 30mph in 12 sec/0 to 60 in 30 sec. 20mph to 0 in 80ft without trailer brakes. Outside of that it’s based on axel weights, tongue weights (700lbs here), and suspension. As far as durability goes the final part of SAE J2807 is called the Davis Dam test.

It requires that the truck be able to tow its maximum trailer weight up a specific 11.4-mile uphill stretch of road in Arizona. For this test to be run correctly, it must be at least 100 degrees Fahrenheit outside, and the air conditioning must be on its maximum setting using outside air. The truck must maintain a minimum speed of 40 mph (35 mph for a dually), and it can't throw any error codes or burn any fluids during the test.

I can’t confirm if Ineos abides by the SAE J2807 testing. So that should be the real question to ask. All truck manufacturers in the US do. Short of a YouTuber having full access to the vehicle and doing Used Oil Analysis before and after all testing on both the engine and transmission fluids this is all you’re going to get. If that’s not enough then get a diesel truck. I would doubt even the manufacturers have that level of wear over time data. They’ll compile that doing look backs after real world data has come in based on maintenance issues, blown drivetrains, etc.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
They’ve been pitched world wide as being able to tow 7000 lb trailers.
They are in service as utility vehicles with that expectation.

You waste a lot of energy puffing up on me about the issue.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
They’ve been pitched world wide as being able to tow 7000 lb trailers.
They are in service as utility vehicles with that expectation.

You waste a lot of energy puffing up on me about the issue.

You wasted a lot puffing about questions that can’t be answered. Read the manual then. It states there how to operate the vehicle towing heavy weights. Outside of that what do you want? You complained not knowing anything about it’s towing, well there you go. Sorry I answered your question as best as anyone will be able to. I didn’t realize you just wanted to vent.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Give it time and cruisemaster probably will do a video.

I just want to see a NA unit towing a trailer and stopping said trailer.
A couple screen shots of real world fuel consumption under load would be too much to ask for.
You know, like “Hi, I am doing 65 miles an hour towing my blah blah blah trailer, and the ground is flat, there is no obvious head or tail end, and the fuel consumption gauge says this”.

I really don’t need to keep hearing about the bump in the floor.

 

[Shopkeep]

I hate puff pieces.

Doesn’t anybody care about anything but their fuel economy when towing?
Is this gas motor going to make it past the warranty towing 7000lbs?

If you’re going to do any distance towing, I need to know whether this thing can stop you when you’re going down a hill? Or is it going to overheat the fancy 10 speed transmission? How high does the engine temperature get when you’re pulling this thing up a hill in the summertime?
Cripes, there are 25 different Internet personalities that have been handed one of these trucks to take them for a ride, and not a single swinging dick has hooked the trailer on it and said “OK these are the numbers that the load generates in these conditions”.
Am I going to smoke the engine, or the trans? when I drag my trailer past Flagstaff or Steamboat? Will I be able to stop?

The transmission is an 8 speed ZF which has been around in some form or other for a long time, should be more proven and settled than the 10 speed units in Fords.

 

[Roach]

@Lord Ripon USA Good question regarding fuel consumption

By comparison, I get 18 city and 25+ hwy now with a diesel towing 4600lbs dry weight.
I was hoping that the 15MPG for the Grenadier was a conservative number and that towing would get the same. Maybe I have my head too far in the sand.

Regarding braking "stop you when you’re going down a hill", and I'm sure you know this given your background...They use Brembo brakes but considering the size/weight they seem a little small...maybe due to the wheel size; Ineos 316f/305r mm vs what we use now is 360f/330r but our current car is little under 4.7k lbs GVW.

As Ineos says "It's purpose built" ......in this case the purpose wasn't economy (smile).

 

[stickshifter]

The rotors in the Brembo brakes in the Grenadier are 316 mm in the front (12.4 inches), and 305 mm in the rear (12.0 inches). To my amateur eye, these are not very large rotors for a vehicle with a curb weight of nearly 6,000 pounds, a payload of around 1,600 pounds, and a towing capacity of around 7,500 pounds (all approximations). In addition, the Brembo brakes in the Grenadier are 2-piston caliper. Brembo makes other brakes with 4 and 6 piston calipers. More calipers allow for sequential clamping of the calipers, which is good on wet roads, and also allows for better modulation in the brake pedal, as well as greater clamping power. Multi-pistons will bring a vehicle to a stop faster - provided the tires have grip.

By comparison, after I lifted my Jeep JKU and went to a 35-inch tire, I also upgraded the brakes: 343 mm in the front (13.5 inches), 362 mm in the rear (14.25 inches), driven by 6-piston calipers. The curb weight of the Jeep was around 5,000 pounds, but it was running a 35-inch tire that needs more stopping power.

On paper, the brakes in the Gren do not seem to be "great", but owners are reportedly satisfied with them. I think @Spjnr tows quite often with his Gren, and he has not reported any trouble stopping. Maybe he can add his experience here.

 

[Spjnr]

Yes I've done a few 1000 miles towing 7000lb+ with my Gren. The brakes are OK, they're not phenomenal, but not bad. The engine compression of the diesel really helps control weight though, plus the 8 speed is very intelligent when decending long downhill stretches. The petrol engine may be different in this regard, but I've never driven one so can't comment!

I'll see how my brakes hold up wear wise and report back.

One thing to bear in mind is we don't use electronic brake controllers here for trailers, just mechanical surge/overrun brakes.

Edit: just seen OP is looking at an 1800kg trailer, the grenadier will eat that up. I've had 4000kg on the back of mine on a tri-axle set up and it towed very confidently. I usually tow 3500kg on a twin axle.

 

[Krabby]

I’m pretty confident that Brembo or another player will come out with a brake package upgrade before too long. Bigger and slotted rotors, meatier 4- and 6-piston calipers, and different pads nicely bundled for us.

 

[255/85]

I did another on-road test drive the other day. I was encouraged to open it up as I merged onto a busy U.S. freeway. Seeing an opportunity while still driving up the on-ramp I punched it to near 80mph and crossed five lanes of high speed traffic right into the fast lane. This was my thought about halfway through the maneuver:

Yeah, the petrol engine will deliver if asked but it's small and overboosted. Fine for normal driving with a moderately laden vehicle. If you plan to romp on this thing you'd better have a spare short block in your parts bin.

There's nothing scientific about my impression so take it as just that - an impression. It's just what popped into my head. Heavy towing would fall into the category of "romp" in my book.

 

[[ Adam ]]

The B58 in the Grenadier is way under tuned - https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1936905

 

[FlyingTexan]

The tranny is the -51 model and will give before the engine does.