Top Grear BIG READS -Tough Mudder: will LR Defender owners welcome the new Ineos Grenadier? 19 OCT 2023

And yet, while the move upmarket may make it an ideal SUV for most people, there are still a select few who just can’t get onboard.
Some of those people might not want to get onboard, but others genuinely aren’t able to thanks to the price of entry (around £63,000 for a 110) and the treatment that their old school workhorses receive. So, what are all of these folk meant to do when their Defenders finally give up the ghost?

Well, that might just be where Ineos comes in. After trying and failing to buy the tooling for the old Defender, chemical magnate and extremely rich man Jim Ratcliffe decided that he would design and build his own take on the off-road icon. Amazing what you can do with a little bit of initiative and a net worth of £29bn, isn’t it?

Tough Mudder: will LR Defender owners welcome the new Ineos Grenadier?

www.topgear.com

 

[Tazzieman]

Today I was behind a loaded up old Defender (but looked like one of the later ones that I viewed as way overpriced) .
Slows as all F up the hill (lots of hills in Tassy) and the poor driver was squashed up against the steering wheel and B pillar (the same as happens in my old S3 with its 1930s mechanical design).
The Grenadier craps all over the old Defender. And I say that as someone prone to a little sentimentality for LR , but not one to get all misty eyed and thus suffering blurred vision.
IMO Ineos have absolutely made a winning chimera from the Old Defender and the G wagen.

Oh and I'm sick of journos bagging out the Grenadier steering. It works perfectly well.

 

[To]

Today I was behind a loaded up old Defender (but looked like one of the later ones that I viewed as way overpriced) .
Slows as all F up the hill (lots of hills in Tassy) and the poor driver was squashed up against the steering wheel and B pillar (the same as happens in my old S3 with its 1930s mechanical design).
The Grenadier craps all over the old Defender. And I say that as someone prone to a little sentimentality for LR , but not one to get all misty eyed and thus suffering blurred vision.
IMO Ineos have absolutely made a winning chimera from the Old Defender and the G wagen.

Oh and I'm sick of journos bagging out the Grenadier steering. It works perfectly well.

I have never understood what there is to criticize about the perfect steering of the Grenadier. It is not a race car, it is an off-road vehicle. I love the steering on my Grenadier. And even in city traffic it can be maneuvered with complete confidence.

 

[JonSutton]

Agreed, steering is fine.

 

[James]

It does take a while to calibrate to the new steering though, and journos present 2 problems for ineos there- they often dont spend long (ie a week or more), and they are looking to come up with things both positive and negative that will appeal to or interest their audience. The steering is always going to get a mention.

i think it will genuinely be a marmite aspect of the car once lots of people are coming to it via test driving both it and any other cars they are considering. Not because they have been following the project and are already invested like all of us so far. Personally I now love the steering, just being realistic about a grenadier neophyte’s likely reaction on first drive.

 

[Tom D]

I just got in it and drove it. Never noticed the steering really, certainly wouldn’t have noticed anything if there hadn’t been any comment on it in the press reviews.

 

[Tazzieman]

If you live in a city with tight parking spots and garages you will hate the steering. If not now then soon

 

[James]

I just got in it and drove it. Never noticed the steering really, certainly wouldn’t have noticed anything if there hadn’t been any comment on it in the press reviews.

Good to hear. I do know that many people picking up in sydney, where we are immediately onto narrow lanes in very hectic traffic, are having a common experience of concentrating pretty fully on the way home!
all fun and good memories though.

 

[lightning]

Today I was behind a loaded up old Defender (but looked like one of the later ones that I viewed as way overpriced) .
Slows as all F up the hill (lots of hills in Tassy) and the poor driver was squashed up against the steering wheel and B pillar (the same as happens in my old S3 with its 1930s mechanical design).
The Grenadier craps all over the old Defender. And I say that as someone prone to a little sentimentality for LR , but not one to get all misty eyed and thus suffering blurred vision.
IMO Ineos have absolutely made a winning chimera from the Old Defender and the G wagen.

Oh and I'm sick of journos bagging out the Grenadier steering. It works perfectly well.

No the Grenadier doesn't crap all over the old Defender
lt's more of a dual purpose vehicle (than the old Defender) and better on road, but so it should be with a starting price of £65,000.

l've had five old Defenders, now have the new version. l've driven the Grenadier on and off road.

l think Grenadier is what Land Rover should have done with old Defender. But Land Rover will point to the runaway sales success of the new version and say that's what's important.

Money no object my choice would be
1. Grenadier
2. New Defender
3. Old Defender

l've moved on from the old model. But the new Defender doesn't crap all over the old one either.

 

[James]

No the Grenadier doesn't crap all over the old Defender
lt's more of a dual purpose vehicle (than the old Defender) and better on road, but so it should be with a starting price of £65,000.

l've had five old Defenders, now have the new version. l've driven the Grenadier on and off road.

l think Grenadier is what Land Rover should have done with old Defender. But Land Rover will point to the runaway sales success of the new version and say that's what's important.

Money no object my choice would be
1. Grenadier
2. New Defender
3. Old Defender

l've moved on from the old model. But the new Defender doesn't crap all over the old one either.

Agree. Nicely said.

except, for me with money no object, I might have a rangie in second. There’s something inauthentic about the new defender, that wouldnt bother me at all if they called it a disco. My problem, not the cars, but stil….

 

[lightning]

lnterestingly l was at my local Land Rover specialist yesterday and had a sit in four old Defenders, a pristine 2.2 tdci XS, two TD5's and another tdci

There's definitely a bit of old Defender DNA in the new one. You sit in the new one and there's definitely something about it that connects with the old one.

Also on coil springs my 90 does have similarities with the way the old version goes down the road.

However l don't think the new Defender will ever have the totally fit for purpose reputation of the old one, and you'll never get the same response from locals when overlanding where everyone loves the old version.

l think it's down to Grenadier to take up that crown.

 

[Sam]

TG put the IG in the hands of:

- a guy building dirt-bike courses on a remote hillside
- a mountain rescue team
- the guys who modify old defenders to make them less-underpowered
- a troupe of sheep farmers

Lo and behold - they'd likely prefer to carry on trashing their already trashed old defenders - rather than 80k of fresh-out-the-box Grenadier.

This comparison ... it's starting to feel a little like a trap. What other car would be judged in this way?

Only a bit of light-entertainment of course, though capable of being made more genuinely useful if the user groups had been pressed for an answer regarding what else they'd consider replacing their ageing Defenders with - if not the Grenadier.

Choose! And it can't be a 20yo shitbox.

Point being - now there exists a choice.

 

[lightning]

Most old Defender fans l've met, love the Grenadier, the only reservation being the high purchase price.

Fewer like the new Defender, but it's not aimed at them, it's aimed at people who want the sentiment of an "adventure" vehicle but are unlikely to take it any further off road than the local horse show.

And l say this as someone who owns one.

 

[lightning]

Choose! And it can't be a 20yo shitbox.

My old Defender was anything but a 20 year old shitbox. lt was flippin' awesome.

But the new one works better for my business.

 

[Krabby]

I will always love a proper Defender. Perhaps it's easy as someone who always wanted one but never owned one to see them with rose-colored glasses, but they are fantastic looking trucks! NAS D90s are crazy expensive so I've never had the pleasure, but I think hard-top 90s are the best looking of all the wagons, and as much as I adore first generation Broncos, they 1 and 1A in my book of looks.

 

[DaBull]

I will always love a proper Defender. Perhaps it's easy as someone who always wanted one but never owned one to see them with rose-colored glasses, but they are fantastic looking trucks! NAS D90s are crazy expensive so I've never had the pleasure, but I think hard-top 90s are the best looking of all the wagons, and as much as I adore first generation Broncos, they 1 and 1A in my book of looks.

The Old Defender and New Defender got together to have a child and named it Grenadier. Who new I was going to be a father at 71. DaBull

 

[Fidei Defensor]

Tough Mudder: will LR Defender owners welcome the new Ineos Grenadier?

www.topgear.com

Interesting, but they really went to a bunch of "special cases".

 

[lightning]

The new Defender isn't a "Discovery in a dress" as some (non-owners) claim.

lt's nothing like a Discovery. l've driven them both and Discovery is a lovely vehicle but nothing like the Defender.
I am willing to bet that those who say so have never driven either vehicle.
The Defender is best on coils, if you want it to feel like a "Defender"
The fact that most prefer the air suspension tells you the market for these vehicles.
Although l will concede the air suspension does allow you to raise the ride height by 10cm for wading and more extreme off road.
And to lower it so your grandad can get in.

 

[Trialmaster]

The new Defender isn't a "Discovery in a dress" as some (non-owners) claim.

lt's nothing like a Discovery. l've driven them both and Discovery is a lovely vehicle but nothing like the Defender.
I am willing to bet that those who say so have never driven either vehicle.
The Defender is best on coils, if you want it to feel like a "Defender"
The fact that most prefer the air suspension tells you the market for these vehicles.
Although l will concede the air suspension does allow you to raise the ride height by 10cm for wading and more extreme off road.
And to lower it so your grandad can get in.

Driven neither. I do think the Disco is a brilliant car, for me I hate the rear end look. Therefore it would have to be a New Defender D250 if I was buying an LR product. Trouble is I really like the Jaguar F-Pace SVR, which I think would suit me better than an IG. But unfortunately, the boat has sailed for me, the IG would loose too much to change, so the end result is I LOVE THE GRENADIER.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

People like what they like.

I can’t fault them for that.

But I have ridden all over the damn world in just about every kind of four-wheel-drive creature there is, and for use in the United States, the old defender is a POS.
The only two vehicles I found worse, were the Lada Niva, and the UAZ Hunter.

My 1964 International short bed pick up has fewer rattles than the Defender I was driving.
Rose colored glasses are more like goggles and earplugs for some people.