3rd party Videos TFL Short on IG: Not worth it?

[MileHigh]

It's a short, but I thought they liked it in the long form review. Saying that it isn't worth it seems a bit short sighted? Says it is $80k, but then mentions a bunch of features or lack of features that don't really matter- with out mentioning the actual important things.

 

[anand]

They, as with the vast majority of other online reviewers are in the business of grabbing views because views and clicks = income. Post a positive review with exuberant adjectives and people will click; go the other way and again, people will click. Far fewer care about the actual content and review so many vehicles so rapidly that actually caring about the nuances and intricacies is impossible.

Full disclosure: Am I jaded by the automotive industry's journalism? Definitely. Am I super leery (even annoyed) by the lack of depth, transparency, and honesty in the auto industry on the whole? Also definitely

 

[Norb-TX]

He's not wrong on any point.

 

[carlg007]

It's a short, but I thought they liked it in the long form review. Saying that it isn't worth it seems a bit short sighted? Says it is $80k, but then mentions a bunch of features or lack of features that don't really matter- with out mentioning the actual important things.

I think they call it "click bait" But do they really mean the car is not worth the money?

 

[Krabby]

They, as with the vast majority of other online reviewers are in the business of grabbing views because views and clicks = income. Post a positive review with exuberant adjectives and people will click; go the other way and again, people will click. Far fewer care about the actual content and honestly review so many vehicles so rapidly that actually caring about the nuances and intricacies is impossible.

Full disclosure: Am I jaded by the automotive industry's journalism? Definitely. Am I super leery (even annoyed) by the lack of depth, transparency, and honesty in the auto industry on the whole? Also definitely

As a j-school alumnus, what is referred to as "journalism" in 2024 is sickening. I'm not referring to the TFL guys per se, but I digress.

 

[MileHigh]

He's not wrong on any point.

No, and I like the TFL guys in general. I think the issue is that the features/issues that they bring up aren't what most people are basing the 'worth' of the vehicle. To me, the biggest question on 'worth' or value is if the dang things hold up past a decade- which I think most people are more interested in. Three locking differentials, solid axles over if it has power seats and a uses a key. I just think any video that raises the issue of value should address both sides. The lack of a parts manual and local dealer is more of an issue than manual seats. If you think anyone but me is driving this you, you are on crack. I'm setting that seat and you could probably weld the thing in place.

 

[evomind]

Its not worth the money.
Youre paying for uniqueness.

 

[255/85]

Clickbait for sure. I had a bit of respect for Tommy up until this point.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Its not worth the money.
Youre paying for uniqueness.

Yep.

People should get over the “Will it last 10 years?” thing. I don’t think there’s a vehicle on the market that doesn’t have a usable lifespan far beyond 10 Years anymore. Between the electroplating and corrosion protection, New paint technologies, and the super sophisticated manufacturing techniques to build very basic engine driveline packages, if you change the oil, it’s gonna make more than 10 years.
I will measure on total mileage before it gets so loose I don’t like driving it anymore. I’m not young, and everyone of my solid axle vehicles have gotten too sloppy on the highway by the time they had 200,000 miles. Which is less than 10 years for me. I don’t feel like rebuilding king pins, changing out CV joints, replacing all the seals in the axles, taking out the slop in the ring and pinion, etc. etc. anymore. There may not even be anyone left alive in 10 years who knows how to line bore king pin bushings for all I know.
So 10 years is a solid given.
Perhaps that’s not the case in other countries, idk.

 

[holdmybeer]

I respect TFL. I don't feel butthurt about their conclusion. I agree the Grenadier may not be "worth it".

I don't feel the need to drive a vehicle that journalists think is "worth it".

In my life, I have enjoyed owning, using, doing, seeing, and eating many things that Very Smart People have said are not "worth it".

 

[255/85]

Yep.

People should get over the “Will it last 10 years?” thing. I don’t think there’s a vehicle on the market that doesn’t have a usable lifespan far beyond 10 Years anymore. Between the electroplating and corrosion protection, New paint technologies, and the super sophisticated manufacturing techniques to build very basic engine driveline packages, if you change the oil, it’s gonna make more than 10 years.
I will measure on total mileage before it gets so loose I don’t like driving it anymore. I’m not young, and everyone of my solid axle vehicles have gotten too sloppy on the highway by the time they had 200,000 miles. Which is less than 10 years for me. I don’t feel like rebuilding king pins, changing out CV joints, replacing all the seals in the axles, taking out the slop in the ring and pinion, etc. etc. anymore. There may not even be anyone left alive in 10 years who knows how to line bore king pin bushings for all I know.
So 10 years is a solid given.
Perhaps that’s not the case in other countries, idk.

Ineos was aiming for a 25 year lifespan. In them thar olden days we'd be talking something like 250,000 miles over that length of time. Truly, it is not known if the vehicles will last that long or not. Maybe they will or maybe they won't. But the possibility that you will reach that milestone in a shorter period of time is idiosyncratic and not representative of the average buyer - if there even is such a thing. That you won't want to refurb your Grenadier when that time comes is perfectly legit. Maybe you aren't able to do the work or can't afford the costs associated. If you are lucky you may have a ready market for your cast-off when that time comes ala ODs and the like. It may even make you a profit!

But to say the vehicle is overpriced or not worth it or too expensive is an opinion peculiar only to your use case and nothing like mine - or likely most others either. I personally don't expect to ever get to the 250,000 mile mark as that would take 30+ years. Maybe you should put your Grenadier up on BaT and go buy a couple of cheap 4x4s? Drive one for ten years and put the other in the shed. Money saved.

 

[evomind]

"Worth" IS a personal distinction.
I dont think anything is "worth it" but I buy it because I like it and I want it. (And I have bought many vehicles that I didnt necessarily think was "worth it" from a dollars and cents stand point)
Any vehicle beyond a Ford Focus or Toyota Corolla can be a "worth it" argument.
The Grenadier cant do anything that the other off road SUVs cant do.
Look at the newer Land Rovers.
Mechanically pretty stout.
All of their problems are electrical/charging/software issues.
Always an update away that never seems to come.
Sound familiar?

 

[MileHigh]

"Worth" IS a personal distinction.
I dont think anything is "worth it" but I buy it because I like it and I want it. (And I have bought many vehicles that I didnt necessarily think was "worth it" from a dollars and cents stand point)
Any vehicle beyond a Ford Focus or Toyota Corolla can be a "worth it" argument.
The Grenadier cant do anything that the other off road SUVs cant do.
Look at the newer Land Rovers.
Mechanically pretty stout.
All of their problems are electrical/charging/software issues.
Always an update away that never seems to come.
Sound familiar?

I think that was kind of my unspoken comment is that worth is relative to what an individual values, especially with things that are not exactly comparable. There are plenty of smaller cars that you probably couldn’t tell the difference if they covered up the badging and you drove them around. These edge case SUVs are a different kind of breed that the value or worth can depend on what the individual is looking for.

Modern cars are startlingly good. I drive probably 15 to 20 different cars a year as rentals when I travel, and very few of them have ever been so deficient that I wouldn’t own them. And most cars can last at least 10 years, it was just that the grenadier is an unknown quantity when it comes to longevity.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

It continues to amaze me how little people plan to drive their vehicles.
I don’t care for Youtube shills.
They are self serving and repetitive.

But they do hit on salient points on occasion.
Purchasing a Grenadier is just a lifestyle choice for me. The choice whether good or bad is a small one over all.
I hope I like driving it and that there’s room for my Vente’ skinny half caf morning latte’.

It will be interesting to read about the units that are really running up the miles.

 

[AngusMacG]

I would say no vehicle is "worth it" these days. It's such an ambiguous term and I will say I used to enjoy TFL more in the earlier days than now. I think they are so motivated by the clicks that their "impartiality" has declined dramatically in the last year or so.

I tend to enjoy more of their videos on the auction cars and things along those lines than the newer vehicles they "review". What are they going to do when most vehicles have the ADAS system installed?

 

[Tazzieman]

Having a child is a huge financial burden , sacrifice and risk; there's certainly no guarantee the investment will pay off for you or them , yet people fall over themselves when sperm and ovum successfully connect.
Nobody at the fancy reveal party ever thinks of where things will be at the 25 year mark!

If you like the Grenadier and can afford it , just buy it and allow fate to play its hand

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

I’m hoping they keep the volume low so that if I decide to move on, it’s not too big a hit. By the time I get a roo-bar on it, it will be $100,000.00 US for an indulgence.
My wife will of course require some kind of carbon offset. The “made under heat and pressure” kind of carbon offset, lol.

 

[Tazzieman]

My wife will of course require some kind of carbon offset.

So the " no animals were harmed during the making of this product" won't be enough virtue signalling?

 

[AWo]

I don’t think there’s a vehicle on the market that doesn’t have a usable lifespan far beyond 10 Years anymore.

I do not agree completely here. Why? The biggest boost for the automotive industry was car leasing. Instead of selling a new car to my father every 10 to 12 years owners change it every 3 years, 5 at the latest. SAP for example owns 29,000 business vehicles alone. Take Sixt, Hertz, Avis, you name it and all the other companies with all their fleets where the exchange is even faster. Car companies do not make money with the car itself anymore (ok, it seems Ineos is different here if I look at all these price tags) but with the loans of their house bank and leasing fees and services around the car.

Therefore cars must be shiny and working for what...5 years? After that it disappears somewhere in the used car market somewhere in the world. Who cares as long as a new car can leave the factory for it?

Next thing is, owning a new car for too long get's too expensive. I remember me as a small boy and my father lying under his beloved Opel, repairing this and that for small money keeping it alive.
That is not possible more today. A modern headlight module is between 3,500 and 6,000 Euros as a spare. If there is a scratch and you fail the inspection that is more money than the car is worth....and why? Because there are one or two new generations of your modell already on the market.
You have to go to the workshop, read errors and then, if a complete module.is identified....change it. That costs money, every time. Already with the A-Class you had to pull the engine out to change the starter. Batteries are behind carpets glued to the floor plate. With modern Ford engines you have to pull the injectors just to change the valve cover seal. Removing power from a car can be a desaster, so always remember to bridge it if you're a DIY.
Finding the source of the problem alone is a nightmare. Add hybrid cars to that equation.
There is a reason why companies like Kia are so successful, they cover your complete ownership, no costs, 7 years maximum...but then...better get rid of it and get a new one.

Despite the technology for the body may have increased, engine technology has decreased. Mainly due to environmental protection.
We had steel liners, some Millimeter thick, in the past, runs even when damaged, easy to repair. Today you have coatings mycrometer thin. You have to find someone first who has the equipment to repair that. Pistons nod and these coatings can not withstand this or some sand in the cylinder as long as a steel liner can.
Oil must have such a low viscosity that the engine faces as less resistance as possible, but keeping the oil pressure up becomes difficult, so that piston cooling is switched of at idle. The IG engines do that but ECU controlled with a variable oil pump, maybe that is better. Airgap isolated exhaust manifolds tend to rust what kills your turbo. EGR cloggs the input manifold and as the engine should not weight anything more and more, even vital parts, are made from plastic which can't withstand the temperature ups and downs as metall can.

My Land Rover Series 2a is now 53 years and one month old, we never get back such cars.

AWo

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

I do not agree completely here. Why? The biggest boost for the automotive industry was car leasing. Instead of selling a new car to my father every 10 to 12 years owners change it every 3 years, 5 at the latest. SAP for example owns 29,000 business vehicles alone. Take Sixt, Hertz, Avis, you name it and all the other companies with all their fleets where the exchange is even faster. Car companies do not make money with the car itself anymore (ok, it seems Ineos is different here if I look at all these price tags) but with the loans of their house bank and leasing fees and services around the car.

Therefore cars must be shiny and working for what...5 years? After that it disappears somewhere in the used car market somewhere in the world. Who cares as long as a new car can leave the factory for it?

Next thing is, owning a new car for too long get's too expensive. I remember me as a small boy and my father lying under his beloved Opel, repairing this and that for small money keeping it alive.
That is not possible more today. A modern headlight module is between 3,500 and 6,000 Euros as a spare. If there is a scratch and you fail the inspection that is more money than the car is worth....and why? Because there are one or two new generations of your modell already on the market.
You have to go to the workshop, read errors and then, if a complete module.is identified....change it. That costs money, every time. Already with the A-Class you had to pull the engine out to change the starter. Batteries are behind carpets glued to the floor plate. With modern Ford engines you have to pull the injectors just to change the valve cover seal. Removing power from a car can be a desaster, so always remember to bridge it if you're a DIY.
Finding the source of the problem alone is a nightmare. Add hybrid cars to that equation.
There is a reason why companies like Kia are so successful, they cover your complete ownership, no costs, 7 years maximum...but then...better get rid of it and get a new one.

Despite the technology for the body may have increased, engine technology has decreased. Mainly due to environmental protection.
We had steel liners, some Millimeter thick, in the past, runs even when damaged, easy to repair. Today you have coatings mycrometer thin. You have to find someone first who has the equipment to repair that. Pistons nod and these coatings can not withstand this or some sand in the cylinder as long as a steel liner can.
Oil must have such a low viscosity that the engine faces as less resistance as possible, but keeping the oil pressure up becomes difficult, so that piston cooling is switched of at idle. The IG engines do that but ECU controlled with a variable oil pump, maybe that is better. Airgap isolated exhaust manifolds tend to rust what kills your turbo. EGR cloggs the input manifold and as the engine shoudl not weight anything more and more, even vital parts, are made from plastic which can't withstand the temperature ups and downs as metall can.

My Land Rover Series 2a is now 53 years and one month old, we never get back such cars.

AWo

I’m kind of in the industry AWo.
200,000 is a walk in the park for regular service vehicles here.
The things you are talking about show why “Right to repair” is such a big deal here.
I guess we’ll find out?
There should be some early vehicles surpassing 50k pretty soon.
Not that it would matter, other than a demonstration of my ability to accept abuse, but I was a factory trained FIAT mechanic in the 1970’s. I’ve worked on plenty of junkers.