Possible Owner

[JackieTreehorn]

Hello All,
Its great that we are all essentially "noobs" here. When was the last time I got to join a group of a vehicle that literally just launched (and a new manufacturer)! I've always been involved with vintage enthusiast groups and I remember first joining various car forums and feeling like an infant for the first year. I guess we all learn together starting now.

I've owned 3 ROW Defender 110s and have been a member of DefenderSource (under same name) since 2010ish, which predates their AOL email group days, but is old enough to have some cred and free perks, LOL.

Looking forward to getting to know the Grenadier a bit before making a $$$$ commitment. Coming from daily driving an ROW 300TDi Defender in the past, I'm sure the Grenadier will seem like a Rolls Royce in terms of comfort and noise, so I'm not really that concerned with its "quirks", as that is a big part of the appeal to me. The "quirks" should keep the Grenadier from achieving the stigma attached to the G-Wags and will keep any Kardashian away from ownership.

So far, I love the commitment to keeping it open-source and serviceable.

I'm hesitant to get excited about ANYTHING BMW these days, but I suppose its better than anything made by JLR, so I'm cautiously optimistic regarding the BMW engine and all the plastic bits that break, crack or freeze after 50,000 miles.

Have an appointment with KO Ineos this week to learn more, so with any luck maybe I'll convert to an owner?

Anyway, nice to meet yall !

 

[parb]

The "quirks" should keep the Grenadier from achieving the stigma attached to the G-Wags and will keep any Kardashian away from ownership.

Word!!

 

[AngusMacG]

The KO people are great just make sure you ask specific questions as much as you can. They should have their dealer license soon as well. There is potential for a lot of good things from KO once they are set and INEOS can get vehicles ready for transfer! The backers for KO have a history with off-roading so we should see future events, etc.

 

[ScottnAZ]

I'm hesitant to get excited about ANYTHING BMW these days, but I suppose its better than anything made by JLR

As our teenager would say….. FACTS!……

(And yes, I would then follow by asking her who she wanted to send a FAX to, or if she could find the answer on the FAQ page).

 

[carlg007]

Hello All,
Its great that we are all essentially "noobs" here. When was the last time I got to join a group of a vehicle that literally just launched (and a new manufacturer)! I've always been involved with vintage enthusiast groups and I remember first joining various car forums and feeling like an infant for the first year. I guess we all learn together starting now.

I've owned 3 ROW Defender 110s and have been a member of DefenderSource (under same name) since 2010ish, which predates their AOL email group days, but is old enough to have some cred and free perks, LOL.

Looking forward to getting to know the Grenadier a bit before making a $$$$ commitment. Coming from daily driving an ROW 300TDi Defender in the past, I'm sure the Grenadier will seem like a Rolls Royce in terms of comfort and noise, so I'm not really that concerned with its "quirks", as that is a big part of the appeal to me. The "quirks" should keep the Grenadier from achieving the stigma attached to the G-Wags and will keep any Kardashian away from ownership.

So far, I love the commitment to keeping it open-source and serviceable.

I'm hesitant to get excited about ANYTHING BMW these days, but I suppose its better than anything made by JLR, so I'm cautiously optimistic regarding the BMW engine and all the plastic bits that break, crack or freeze after 50,000 miles.

Have an appointment with KO Ineos this week to learn more, so with any luck maybe I'll convert to an owner?

Anyway, nice to meet yall !

I share your thoughts about all of the plastic bits that seem to fail with age on modern engines. I am not aware of any new engines that do not incorporate plastics or composites in the design. I have done some research on the B58 engine and it does seem to be better than some of the BMW's of the recent past, but who knows after 10-12 years what will happen. I like to keep my cars till they are no longer economical to drive which is 15 to 20 years . I would like for this vehicle to be my last purchase I am now 64.
I was also attracted to the idea of open-source and repair information online and I hear rumblings that it is still in the works but I have not seen any guaranties that it will happen. We were also told that there would be independent from the dealers repair shops for service and warranty work this has not as of now been guaranteed!

 

[JackieTreehorn]

The more I look, the more there is to like about the Grenadier.

Granted, this is all new, but what has the experience been in United States in terms of parts and warranty support?
I left the conversation with the dealer feeling a vagueness to it all.
"It wont break" or "anyone can work on a B58" isn't really answering my question.

I know most people in United States have barely broken theirs in so far, but certainly there have been some failures and warranty issues among them, I just want to understand and set my expectations accordingly.

Trust, but verify.....if you get what I mean.

 

[AngusMacG]

The more I look, the more there is to like about the Grenadier.

Granted, this is all new, but what has the experience been in United States in terms of parts and warranty support?
I left the conversation with the dealer feeling a vagueness to it all.
"It wont break" or "anyone can work on a B58" isn't really answering my question.

I know most people in United States have barely broken theirs in so far, but certainly there have been some failures and warranty issues among them, I just want to understand and set my expectations accordingly.

Trust, but verify.....if you get what I mean.

If KO can get their license and start operating I think your concerns over service/warranty will be moot to a degree. Their location is very good and accessible from anywhere in MA and eastern New England. For those that are far away there is plenty to do in the area (shopping, hotels, restaurants, etc.) to keep you occupied during any service.

 

[JackieTreehorn]

If KO can get their license and start operating I think your concerns over service/warranty will be moot to a degree. Their location is very good and accessible from anywhere in MA and eastern New England. For those that are far away there is plenty to do in the area (shopping, hotels, restaurants, etc.) to keep you occupied during any service.

Yeah, I got a sense that they (KO) are committed/invested in being a great rep/dealer.

I guess I was feeling around for any forum members that have had to deal with any repairs or warranty issues yet. I'm sure most people on this forum have owned plenty of new cars from all types of manufacturers, so you'll know what I mean when I say there is a difference between the warranty support among different brands.
e.g. JLR is notoriously miserable whereas Mercedes was all about customer experience.

Lets hope its a moot point, but if I'm dropping $90k on a tool designed to last, I want to know where to adjust my expectations when something breaks.

 

[MTNDOG]

I share your thoughts about all of the plastic bits that seem to fail with age on modern engines. I am not aware of any new engines that do not incorporate plastics or composites in the design. I have done some research on the B58 engine and it does seem to be better than some of the BMW's of the recent past, but who knows after 10-12 years what will happen. I like to keep my cars till they are no longer economical to drive which is 15 to 20 years . I would like for this vehicle to be my last purchase I am now 64.
I was also attracted to the idea of open-source and repair information online and I hear rumblings that it is still in the works but I have not seen any guaranties that it will happen. We were also told that there would be independent from the dealers repair shops for service and warranty work this has not as of now been guaranteed!

I learned the hard way, 2014 Mini Cooper Countryman, tried to change the PCV valve, pried the cover up and the plastic valve cover shattered. Unbelievable.

 

[AngusMacG]

Yeah, I got a sense that they (KO) are committed/invested in being a great rep/dealer.

I guess I was feeling around for any forum members that have had to deal with any repairs or warranty issues yet. I'm sure most people on this forum have owned plenty of new cars from all types of manufacturers, so you'll know what I mean when I say there is a difference between the warranty support among different brands.
e.g. JLR is notoriously miserable whereas Mercedes was all about customer experience.

Lets hope its a moot point, but if I'm dropping $90k on a tool designed to last, I want to know where to adjust my expectations when something breaks.

They are so new in the US market and most dealers are still getting set up w/INEOS not sure any warranty issues have come up yet. The windshield crack issue is the only thing that might be truly a warranty thing.

 

[JackieTreehorn]

I learned the hard way, 2014 Mini Cooper Countryman, tried to change the PCV valve, pried the cover up and the plastic valve cover shattered. Unbelievable.

Correct. Ask anyone that's owned a post 2000-era BMW, especially the 4.4 found in the L322 Range Rover. But, to be fair as others have said, that's literally every manufacturer now. Plastic bits engineered to fail. As it relates to the Grenadier, I bet there is sound rationale behind the BMW powertrain. I like the fact it's somewhat low-rated HP, that means it's not high-strung and on the edge of failure all the time. Maybe it will go 500k miles?

We used to have this discussion ad-nauseum on the DefenderSource forum when there was talk of developing the new Defender starting around 2015/2016.... its simply impossible in this day and age to think that we can have engineered simplicity like the past. We will never be able to buy a new vehicle without electronic nannies that requires software to run. We will never see another 12v/24v Cummins or 2.5 300TDi or even close in a vehicle, best we can hope for is a tried and tested Toyota V8, LS or maybe (fingers crossed) in this case a B58 will be that.

 

[YellowLab]

They are so new in the US market and most dealers are still getting set up w/INEOS not sure any warranty issues have come up yet. The windshield crack issue is the only thing that might be truly a warranty thing.

I think the only piece to keep the eyes open to or at least in the back of your mind is that it is a new vehicle with mechanics who have less than a month probably playing with the car. A BMW mechanic who has spent the last 5-10 years working on 5 series knows the car inside and out - all the rattles, nuances, annoyances, gremlins and other things that make someone itch. So many of these guys can trouble shoot those cars in their sleep. They will get there with the Grenadier but realistically they will need time to build the muscle memory. Good news is that many of the issues are not major at this point - have only seen a couple folks with 'oh shit' problems in the '23 model year early releases.

 

[Krabby]

I think the only piece to keep the eyes open to or at least in the back of your mind is that it is a new vehicle with mechanics who have less than a month probably playing with the car. A BMW mechanic who has spent the last 5-10 years working on 5 series knows the car inside and out - all the rattles, nuances, annoyances, gremlins and other things that make someone itch. So many of these guys can trouble shoot those cars in their sleep. They will get there with the Grenadier but realistically they will need time to build the muscle memory. Good news is that many of the issues are not major at this point - have only seen a couple folks with 'oh shit' problems in the '23 model year early releases.

Hopefully some BMW techs have made their way into IA dealerships as employees - the driveline will be quite familiar to them. I think this is one advantage with dealership groups that include BMW dealers - even if those techs don't switch brands, they are an easy resource to tap for any engine/trans issues.

 

[Eyedogtor]

Hello All,
Its great that we are all essentially "noobs" here. When was the last time I got to join a group of a vehicle that literally just launched (and a new manufacturer)! I've always been involved with vintage enthusiast groups and I remember first joining various car forums and feeling like an infant for the first year. I guess we all learn together starting now.

I've owned 3 ROW Defender 110s and have been a member of DefenderSource (under same name) since 2010ish, which predates their AOL email group days, but is old enough to have some cred and free perks, LOL.

Looking forward to getting to know the Grenadier a bit before making a $$$$ commitment. Coming from daily driving an ROW 300TDi Defender in the past, I'm sure the Grenadier will seem like a Rolls Royce in terms of comfort and noise, so I'm not really that concerned with its "quirks", as that is a big part of the appeal to me. The "quirks" should keep the Grenadier from achieving the stigma attached to the G-Wags and will keep any Kardashian away from ownership.

So far, I love the commitment to keeping it open-source and serviceable.

I'm hesitant to get excited about ANYTHING BMW these days, but I suppose its better than anything made by JLR, so I'm cautiously optimistic regarding the BMW engine and all the plastic bits that break, crack or freeze after 50,000 miles.

Have an appointment with KO Ineos this week to learn more, so with any luck maybe I'll convert to an owner?

Anyway, nice to meet yall !

Great to meet you! KO is great, and I had the most valuable 2-hour test drive ever with them recently. I was on the fence before I visited - but I'm in after spending time with the vehicle. I can't describe it objectively - but I always seek to find vehicles that I get emotionally attached to....and you never know which it will be. My last M3 was a great case - loved that car. I'll say that the Grenadier just oozes personality, and I found myself getting attached after a couple hours.

Magic Mushroom Trialmaster with the contract roof and Safari windows....hoping for an April delivery.

Lastly, between you, @AngusMacG and a few others - seems like we have a great Massachusetts contingent!

 

[Krabby]

Great to meet you! KO is great, and I had the most valuable 2-hour test drive ever with them recently. I was on the fence before I visited - but I'm in after spending time with the vehicle. I can't describe it objectively - but I always seek to find vehicles that I get emotionally attached to....and you never know which it will be. My last M3 was a great case - loved that car. I'll say that the Grenadier just oozes personality, and I found myself getting attached after a couple hours.

Magic Mushroom Trialmaster with the contract roof and Safari windows....hoping for an April delivery.

Lastly, between you, @AngusMacG and a few others - seems like we have a great Massachusetts contingent!

Can't wait to see your dogs in there - although it's a mighty high jump up there. They may need a boost!

 

[AngusMacG]

Can't wait to see your dogs in there - although it's a mighty high jump up there. They may need a boost!

I actually went out yesterday and bought a step stool for any passengers I may have. will need to invest in a decent dog ramp since one of my dogs is blind and that jump is most likely a tad too high.

Eventually will get a side step or rock sliders that can be dual purpose. Need to get my vehicle first!

 

[anand]

Hopefully some BMW techs have made their way into IA dealerships as employees - the driveline will be quite familiar to them. I think this is one advantage with dealership groups that include BMW dealers - even if those techs don't switch brands, they are an easy resource to tap for any engine/trans issues.

BMW techs definitely will have B58 mechanical experience; for the transmission it could be techs from Alfa, Aston, Audi/VW, Bentley, BMW, CDJR, JLR, Porsche, Maserati, Rolls Royce, Toyota; as all those brands use the ZF 8HP; Specifically the 8HP 50 is used by Alfa, BMW, CDJR, JLR, and Maserati

However, other than CDJR and some old JLR techs, the rest of them will be very confused about anything drivetrain related beyond the transmission

 

[MidnightCamper]

Great to meet you! KO is great, and I had the most valuable 2-hour test drive ever with them recently. I was on the fence before I visited - but I'm in after spending time with the vehicle. I can't describe it objectively - but I always seek to find vehicles that I get emotionally attached to....and you never know which it will be. My last M3 was a great case - loved that car. I'll say that the Grenadier just oozes personality, and I found myself getting attached after a couple hours.

Magic Mushroom Trialmaster with the contract roof and Safari windows....hoping for an April delivery.

Lastly, between you, @AngusMacG and a few others - seems like we have a great Massachusetts contingent!

Had a very nice demo this week on normal asphalt roads in slushy snow in Framingham thanks to Ko Ineos. It felt very different from the thrilling demo I had at Northeast Offroad in NY last year in slippery muddy woods. I have to say the natural environment for the Grenadier is off road where it is supreme. On road it felt more like a tank. Fine to drive but very hefty. (My daily driver is a Taco TRD stick 4x4.) At least in 2024, 2025 US will have more choices for 4x4 cross country multi-month trips than we've had for a while.

 

[AngusMacG]

Had a very nice demo this week on normal asphalt roads in slushy snow in Framingham thanks to Ko Ineos. It felt very different from the thrilling demo I had at Northeast Offroad in NY last year in slippery muddy woods. I have to say the natural environment for the Grenadier is off road where it is supreme. On road it felt more like a tank. Fine to drive but very hefty. (My daily driver is a Taco TRD stick 4x4.) At least in 2024, 2025 US will have more choices for 4x4 cross country multi-month trips than we've had for a while.

Did they mention anything about their license or when they can start selling vehicles?

 

[MidnightCamper]

Did they mention anything about their license or when they can start selling vehicles?

Because I'm not yet a buyer, I only asked about the open house which they're hoping will be in March. They did say service work will be done right there by them in Framingham. Best source of information is probably their bulletins to to the customer list. Other news is Ineos has closed online ordering and all orders will now be only via dealers.