Americas North America Parts and Service Experiences

[SkiWill]

Hi, prospective Grenadier buyer here.

I was finally able to get hands on with a Grenadier, and wow was I impressed. I knew it was heavy duty, but it even has king pin axles! (Warning for those not engineering nerds interested in minutia) I mean that's something that is found in class 6-8 trucks and hasn't been on US consumer pickups for decades as far as I'm aware. It is very clear that this thing was built to take thousands of miles of traveling across potholed unpaved roads (or Salt Lake City, Pittsburgh, etc.) without blinking. It's also a reason why the turning radius is boat like (king pins are more robust than ball joints but more expensive to build and can limit turning radius), but it shows where the engineers' heads were at in the design phase: build a tank that will just go and go and go. Solid axles is one thing. Solid axles with king pins shows a whole different level of thinking. Yes, it's the details that make the difference to me.

So, this is clearly the 70 Series Land Cruiser (only other vehicle on sale new today for a consumer size 4x4 that I know of using king pins and with a similar boat like turning circle) or W461 G wagon for NA with a rubber floor, actual knobs and buttons, hard plastic seat backs, etc. that I have been waiting for. I could pretty much buy and drive instead of having to then reengineer whatever it is to fit my needs.

HOWEVER, my experience with Land Rover, which also makes a quite good 4x4 despite what some might say, is I'm tired of paying 400% markup on service and 300% markup on parts.

One of the other enormous appeals was that the Grenadier was supposed to be owner serviceable with a readily available workshop manual. In lots of reading and searching, that seems to be unclear at the moment.

The manual is supposedly due out Q1 2024 which would be in the next two weeks right?

Has anyone gotten any confirmation on this? It seems like in other threads there's been various replies from Ineos in other countries from "we'll see" to "keep waiting."

Has anyone in North America had any experience trying to get parts or service and the cost of service? This car should be a whistle while you work service experience. I crawled all over it, and I could do things in about half or a fourth of the time as on my Land Rover, but our friends in Europe and Australia are reporting shockingly high service and parts costs for simple things like an oil change (I could do in 15-30 minutes w/ $100 in parts here in the US), plastic door handle, spare wheel, etc.

Given that Ineos launched the product promising to be different, it's a bit off-putting if parts and service cost is going to make even Land Rover blush. Never mind the catastrophic impact this would have on insurance costs which are already up 20% this year.

I know it's very early days in North America, but anyone's experience would be helpful. Love the vehicle, just hoping for something that is ACTUALLY different from a Land Rover experience.

 

[Thunderbird]

Great question(s) I’m anticipating answers from owners. I hope to receive my vehicle in a week and have the same questions as you. My service center is “only” 3.5hrs away but I worry about parts availability and diagnosis time.

 

[AngusMacG]

I’m currently waiting on a windshield replacement. Went in on Tuesday and they booked me for this coming Tuesday. Pretty sure they won’t have one but maybe I’ll be lucky!

 

[SkiWill]

I’m currently waiting on a windshield replacement. Went in on Tuesday and they booked me for this coming Tuesday. Pretty sure they won’t have one but maybe I’ll be lucky!

I certainly hope so. It didn't take long for you to crack your windshield, and it doesn't take me long here in the Rockies where I'm pretty sure they are referring to all of the things being kicked up off the road and falling off dump trucks rather than the mountains.

I just cracked the heated windshield in my LR4. If I get out of this for less than $800, I'll be somewhat surprised. I'll be interested in your experience if you're willing to share it.

 

[anand]

Windshields are in pretty regular supply in the US, so you should be good AngusMacG

SkiWill to answer a few of your questions:

Ineos has a sizable parts warehouse in the US that is already stocked with a number of parts (of course, as with any car company, the more rare intricate pieces may not be in stock), and dealers are building parts stocks as well (I feel like this will increase as more come through for service, and as with other brands, the "common" parts are figured out and stocked).

You said paying a 300% markup on parts, are you considering that number as 300% markup over what they should cost, or 300% markup in comparison with non-branded alternatives (for instance, TRW or Febi steering components available from online sources instead of manufacturer branded parts)?

While Ineos sets the MSRP for parts pricing, there is nothing from keeping a dealer from charging over MSRP (or, to an extent, under) for parts, and each dealer sets their own labor rate. Given the dealer model in the US, these are factors that no car manufacturer has control over; so a medium service could be $400 at one dealer and $1100 at another (these are random prices, not actual). Again, this is common across all brands, and varies drastically depending on where you are geographically.

I think the last "official" statement about the workshop manual was that they were awaiting the MY24 vehicles to hit the streets, whether that meant MY24s on the streets in the Americas or for the RoW was not specified; personal feeling here, I'd be impressed if it materializes before the end of 2024.

One bit of advice for windshields, make sure you get that $0 deductible coverage through your insurance if your state doesn't mandate it, on our Sprinter the extra $6/month it added is well worth it considering Safelite charges self-pay clients something in the neighborhood of $1300 to replace it (and this isn't the heated version), ironically only billing insurance about $250 for it. Not sure what the cost of an OEM windshield for the Grenadier is at this point, but I'm sure it isn't inexpensive.

 

[SkiWill]

When I say 300% markup on Land Rover products, I'll give you an example of my most recent servicing. I'm not talking off brand or cut rate aftermarket knock off, but strictly OEM and the exact same part:

Air strut from Delphi (OEM) - ~$350. Same air strut made by Delphi in a Land Rover Box: $950 if you buy from out of state dealer and over $1,000 if you buy locally at the counter.

NGK spark plug OEM: $11. Exact same spark plug made by NGK in a Land Rover box: $33.

CV joint boot kit: $50. Land Rover online $111. Land Rover local walk up: $150.

GL5 gear oil in a Valvoline Container: $17. In a Land Rover container: $50.

That's another annoyance. Land Rover dealers will sell to an out of stater for less than the walk up customer. When I once pointed out the obvious issue with this practice, I was told that it was a part of Land Rover policy. Dealers could sell at a discount online but could not offer the online price if you actually walked up to the counter to try to buy a part then the price was set by Land Rover for "consistency."

I get that the "brand" has to charge a markup for packaging, distribution, cataloging, etc. I'm not naive. There's a cost associated with that. But it's not a 3x cost increase over the initial item. That's just greed and gouging customers who are worried about losing warranty coverage.

What I would like to know, is not how dealers work in the US. I know what that's like.

But, what is Ineos actually doing as part of their business practice? Are they charging $85 for a re-boxed Mahle OEM oil filter, or are they charging $50 for the same $20-25 Mahle oil filter. Toyota and Lexus keep the markup reasonable or Ram when covering Cummins parts are not this egregious. Does an oil change cost $500 or $250?

As for the windshield coverage whenever it's used, my rates go up so I just stopped doing it because I more than paid for the windshield through increased premiums. I'm aware of Safelite's business practices as well, which is why I tell them I have insurance (which I do), but if they just go ahead and bill me the insurance preferred rate I'll pay cash and they don't have to file the paperwork. It's amazing how fast the price drops.

 

[Psignore00]

I’m currently waiting on a windshield replacement. Went in on Tuesday and they booked me for this coming Tuesday. Pretty sure they won’t have one but maybe I’ll be lucky!

Good luck

 

[MidBestKid]

Windshields are in pretty regular supply in the US, so you should be good AngusMacG

SkiWill to answer a few of your questions:

Ineos has a sizable parts warehouse in the US that is already stocked with a number of parts (of course, as with any car company, the more rare intricate pieces may not be in stock), and dealers are building parts stocks as well (I feel like this will increase as more come through for service, and as with other brands, the "common" parts are figured out and stocked).

I was about to start a thread on this subject. A workshop manual would be fantastic. So much of this vehicle is still "I wonder what's in there" for me. Axle shafts, differential, electronic lockers, etc.

 

[Psignore00]

Finally got my windshield replaced this week (it had a crack since the first week of February and I ended up having to go through the dealer and paying out of pocket and then submitting to insurance on my own) and got a quote for the 3 parts of the LEFT 1/3 side of the front bumper that I bent. Should install with a few bolts but $900 and on backorder makes me wait for something stronger aftermarket rather than put $900 into something that will easily
Get bent again.

I somewhat expected this with a low volume manufacturer and a new product in its first year and keep reminding myself to just wait and see what other products come out or get developed in the next couple years

 

[AngusMacG]

Finally got my windshield replaced this week (it had a crack since the first week of February and I ended up having to go through the dealer and paying out of pocket and then submitting to insurance on my own) and got a quote for the 3 parts of the LEFT 1/3 side of the front bumper that I bent. Should install with a few bolts but $900 and on backorder makes me wait for something stronger aftermarket rather than put $900 into something that will easily
Get bent again.

I somewhat expected this with a low volume manufacturer and a new product in its first year and keep reminding myself to just wait and see what other products come out or get developed in the next couple years

What did the windshield cost you?

 

[Psignore00]

$1300 windscreen
$216 drain gutter seal
$399 install

Here are the part numbers

 

[Zimm]

15 years ago, Mercedes wanted 750 dollars for the hvac blower motor in my Gwagon. It was difficult and time consuming because the OEM suppliers for Merc roll stamp the part with merc numbers only, but in a Bosch book I visually matched bought it, and the difference was the internal speed setting resistors, input up with the third speed being a little noisier for the 685 dollars I saved.


They all overcharge by multiples, and I’m sure Ineos will too, but they are gonna have have to really work hard to beat Mercedes… (my personal horror story. Never own a merc out warranty)

 

[boomerisadog]

Hi, prospective Grenadier buyer here.

I was finally able to get hands on with a Grenadier, and wow was I impressed. I knew it was heavy duty, but it even has king pin axles! (Warning for those not engineering nerds interested in minutia) I mean that's something that is found in class 6-8 trucks and hasn't been on US consumer pickups for decades as far as I'm aware. It is very clear that this thing was built to take thousands of miles of traveling across potholed unpaved roads (or Salt Lake City, Pittsburgh, etc.) without blinking. It's also a reason why the turning radius is boat like (king pins are more robust than ball joints but more expensive to build and can limit turning radius), but it shows where the engineers' heads were at in the design phase: build a tank that will just go and go and go. Solid axles is one thing. Solid axles with king pins shows a whole different level of thinking. Yes, it's the details that make the difference to me.

So, this is clearly the 70 Series Land Cruiser (only other vehicle on sale new today for a consumer size 4x4 that I know of using king pins and with a similar boat like turning circle) or W461 G wagon for NA with a rubber floor, actual knobs and buttons, hard plastic seat backs, etc. that I have been waiting for. I could pretty much buy and drive instead of having to then reengineer whatever it is to fit my needs.

HOWEVER, my experience with Land Rover, which also makes a quite good 4x4 despite what some might say, is I'm tired of paying 400% markup on service and 300% markup on parts.

One of the other enormous appeals was that the Grenadier was supposed to be owner serviceable with a readily available workshop manual. In lots of reading and searching, that seems to be unclear at the moment.

The manual is supposedly due out Q1 2024 which would be in the next two weeks right?

Has anyone gotten any confirmation on this? It seems like in other threads there's been various replies from Ineos in other countries from "we'll see" to "keep waiting."

Has anyone in North America had any experience trying to get parts or service and the cost of service? This car should be a whistle while you work service experience. I crawled all over it, and I could do things in about half or a fourth of the time as on my Land Rover, but our friends in Europe and Australia are reporting shockingly high service and parts costs for simple things like an oil change (I could do in 15-30 minutes w/ $100 in parts here in the US), plastic door handle, spare wheel, etc.

Given that Ineos launched the product promising to be different, it's a bit off-putting if parts and service cost is going to make even Land Rover blush. Never mind the catastrophic impact this would have on insurance costs which are already up 20% this year.

I know it's very early days in North America, but anyone's experience would be helpful. Love the vehicle, just hoping for something that is ACTUALLY different from a Land Rover experience.

Someone t-boned us about 45 days into having our grenadier. The good news is that this thing is a tank and took the impact of an suv going about 40mph like a champ. Barely budged. I thought we had hit a curb and was surprised to see a car there.
Then, we were on the outskirts of helene and we're attempting to navigate off an island in which the only causeway on and off was covered with downed poles and powerless and the roof rack got caught on a metal bracket of an electrical pole and about ripped off the roof racks. Bad luck!

That being said, our car has been at the dealer for over a month. They are unable to locate any replacement door panels. No ETA. Surely there are doors somewhere thay can be shipped. We are unclear what the source of the hold up is... we are planning to call corporate and other dealers to see what we can learn.

 

[Zimm]

Someone t-boned us about 45 days into having our grenadier. The good news is that this thing is a tank and took the impact of an suv going about 40mph like a champ. Barely budged. I thought we had hit a curb and was surprised to see a car there.
Then, we were on the outskirts of helene and we're attempting to navigate off an island in which the only causeway on and off was covered with downed poles and powerless and the roof rack got caught on a metal bracket of an electrical pole and about ripped off the roof racks. Bad luck!

That being said, our car has been at the dealer for over a month. They are unable to locate any replacement door panels. No ETA. Surely there are doors somewhere thay can be shipped. We are unclear what the source of the hold up is... we are planning to call corporate and other dealers to see what we can learn.

Being parts are so scarce, your rig is now worth more as a donor parts car, than a new car with a blighted carfax report. Total it and get new one. <-- (before the literal police chime in, I'm just fucking around)

My insurance broker actually warned me to be prepared at renewal time as the rates on these will jump when the repair cost data pours in.