Multiple Landrover owner considering Ineos

[Tr182md]

Hi,

I have had an LR3 since new in 2006 and was following the development of the new Defender and the INEOS. I went with a new Defender 110X about two years ago and I have to admit is an amazing car. However it has been in for minor service about four times, this last time replacing the DC to DC converter which meant a tow to the Dealer since it was not charging. It is so comfortable and a pleasure to drive. I have done some mods but I am frustrated by how difficult it is to modify as in to add a winch, a new bumper, or to add lights to the top.

Along comes the Grenadier which comes with all the things I want to add and I read today on this forum about someone bolting on a Bull bar in minutes to the Gredadier. For years I have been upset at the LAndrover trend of going further and further away from Utility and more towards luxury. 22” rims … what were they thinking??

I do have concerns about INEOS. Will they be around for the life of the vehicle? How bad is the steering? Can I lift it high enough? I love taking the Defender on long road trips but will the steering of the Grenadier make that uncomfortable? My friend has one and he says more than an hour and he is tired. I know there is a steering damper mod.

I tend to buy a car that I love and keep it … not used to trading things in every few years.

I bought an overlanding teardrop and really want to have a winch and Rock Sliders and all that. So I am sort of stuck. Invest money in chopping off the front of my Defender and drilling holes to pass wire for roof lights and add power for my trailer. Or just get the Grenadier. I am not sure Grenadier has the brake Controller built in but it does have all the rest.

Also ground clearance is better on the Defender and I need to figure out how how I can lift the Grenadier and if I can get 35” tires on there. So here I am to do my research. I also am a pilot so you know I love those switches!!

I know I have a lot to learn as I just starting digging into these. Especially since there are so many just sitting at the Dealer right now which is great and also concerning.

Here is my rig as it is now.

 

[pmatusov]

I think every single one of your concerns has been addressed already. 2" of lift allows to run 35x12.5R17s, however, narrow 34s fit without lift and rubbing.
Ground clearance number is ridiculously misleading: yes, Def has more. However, this clearance is across the entire belly of the truck, whereas a Grenadier only has it under the diffs. It means there are tracks out there where a 110 will plaster itself on the belly and a Grenadier will make the 3rd rut by simply dragging the diffs along the mud/snow/sand etc.
There are zero, repeat zero, issues with steering. It was a little unsettling immediately upon collection of my truck, I forgot about it in a 1000 miles, and at 25k miles there's no difference in steering between the Grenadier or my wife's LR4.

 

[Webecinya]

I’m in same boat. Own multiple vintage Land Rovers, and an LR3 and new 110. I have the itch for a Gren. I would like to sell one of my classics (‘93 D110-driver quality) and my LR3 and consolidate into a Gren.

My biggest hesitations have been to worry about electrical gremlins, including the air-conditioning or any wild dash lights. I don’t mind the steering and I can put up with some of the other issues people have mentione, but electrical gremlins are not something I want to fight. Like Land Rovers, I think you can either get a good one or a bad when it comes to these. I honestly would prefer to buy one with a couple thousand miles on it that has been perfectly flawless pertaining to my concerns but maybe just not the right fit for someone.

 

[Tr182md]

I suspect that the steering issue is just a matter of preference for the modern steering over "truck" steering. I certainly recall driving older trucks and the steering is strange. What I recall is that the Gren (thanks for the abbreviated version I was getting tired typing the whole thing) Steering damper is too stiff and that Agile Overland has a fix. I learned to drive in a VW bus long ago and I think that is also a recirculating ball. I loved my bus. Modern on road vehicles have the much smoother rack and pinion steering. So I hope I am prepared to feel that this weekend when I borrow my friends. Agile Overland described it as being so stiff that when you it deviates you have to correct it constantly and a softer dampener would fix it.

I do love to tinker and just reading about all this tinkering going on is pretty cool.

Of course articles like this don't help.

https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-ineos-grenadier-steering

 

[Tinerfeño]

Welcome to the club

I have lot of history with Land Rovers, starting from RR 3-door V8 -80, which I bought -92 and still have. Later RRC 4-door, many Discovery 1 diesel and petrol (still think that -93 200Tdi is my best allrounder), couple of Disco 2 and Defenders, plus Freelanders and one D3. Later ones are not interesting. Series vehicles are too low for me.

Gren has been with me for half a year and close to 3000 km (small island, you know). I have zero issues with steering, directional stability is perfect, centering could be better but is OK.

Ground clearance has already been addressed. I don't intend to have suspension lift, at least now.

Front bumper is a disappointment. This corner got a very mild hit to a stone and bent 5 cm back so that tyre rubbed to plastic wheelarch liner extension (also protecting the cooler).

I want to have a stronger front bumper but it's not yet solved. Possibly also winch at same time.

 

[rovie]

I’m in same boat. Own multiple vintage Land Rovers, and an LR3 and new 110. I have the itch for a Gren. I would like to sell one of my classics (‘93 D110-driver quality) and my LR3 and consolidate into a Gren.

My biggest hesitations have been to worry about electrical gremlins, including the air-conditioning or any wild dash lights. I don’t mind the steering and I can put up with some of the other issues people have mentione, but electrical gremlins are not something I want to fight. Like Land Rovers, I think you can either get a good one or a bad when it comes to these. I honestly would prefer to buy one with a couple thousand miles on it that has been perfectly flawless pertaining to my concerns but maybe just not the right fit for someone.

I got my Grenadier at the beginning of 2023. It now has almost 30k kilometres on the clock. I only had warning messages in the first year, which were all fixed with a software update. I also had water ingress through the bulkhead. That was also fixed. The only thing I have is the unpredictable heating. It heats, and the air conditioning cools, but not always from the jets I set. But that's not a problem for me. I can live with that. Everything else is absolutely fine. I would sell this vehicle without hesitation. I've even had enquiries about it. But I'm not giving it away for now.
I've only driven Land Rovers/Range Rovers for almost 30 years. I loved them. Even if they had their quirks. Now I'm happy every time I get into the Grenadier.
In my opinion, the steering is not a problem at all.
I would recommend borrowing a used vehicle for a test drive. When it's really raining and cold.

 

[CRH]

20000 miles on mine, long drives don't notice the steering issues people like to complain about, i can swap from sports cars to the Grenadier and it's not an issue. My brain adjusted after 1,000 miles and never bothered me it was just different to start with but we do also have an old car with worm and roller steering ( i think that's right).
Anyway, if you are going to drive it you will get over it quickly. Everything else is fixable and very few seem to have had issues that bring you to a stop. Heating and air-conditioning are odd but once it's been done properly it will work, it just needs you to be patient and learn it's idiosyncrasies (ooh, look at me with big words!)
I've had all the 'normal' issues, but they are fixable and are probably going to be less and less likely with the newer vehicles.
Over a new Defender, you can easily modify and make it your own. Plus, and i hope this is true, it should be more hard waring in the long run if you intend keeping, as i do.

 

[DoubleDoom]

How bad is the steering?

If you are used to SUVs then you will find it poor. If you are used to UVs, then you will find it fine. I have absolutely no problem with the steering whatsoever. My daughter did when she first drove it. She was taught the new way of holding the wheel at 9 and 3 and to grip the wheel. That style does not suit the IG at all. I told to her relax her hands, do not grip which improved things but she was still nervous and steering within the white lines. I told her to let go of the wheel and the IG will still go straight and you don't need to make those micro corrections. She did and she was fine after that. However, my wife really cannot handle it and won't drive it. The more uncomfortable (scared) you are to drive it, the harder you grip the wheel and the more likely you will oversteer it and be constantly moving around.

You sit up high in the IG. the body rolls a bit and because of that height, your head sways a bit. Your brain tells you to correct but you don't need to But if you do correct a movement that the chassis is not suffering, you ending driving the car wobbly constantly trying to correct something that never needed correction. Some people can't dial that out of their head. Some people can.

I find it similar to the old Discovery 1 and 2 in that respect. You just need to relax on the wheel

I love taking the Defender on long road trips but will the steering of the Grenadier make that uncomfortable? My friend has one and he says more than an hour and he is tired. I know there is a steering damper mod.

A couple of months ago, I drove 600 miles cross country with just two short 20 minute breaks. The temperature was -6c in places, some in freezing fog. Some in the dark, some in the day. Barely any of it was motorway. I got out of the IG at the end, and I wasn't stiff or uncomfortable or tired. I was surprised as I did the journey in a BMW Z4 the year before and my legs were sore afterwards.

Where the car is weaker is if you want to maintain 60-70mph. It starts to drink a lot after 55mph. It's a car that is better on rural lanes and slower main roads with a bit of twist and turn. If on fast straight roads (aka Motorways in the UK) over long distances, then the new Defender or Range Rover would beat it. I would pick one of them if that was the sort of driving I was mostly doing.

 

[CRH]

If you are used to SUVs then you will find it poor. If you are used to UVs, then you will find it fine. I have absolutely no problem with the steering whatsoever. My daughter did when she first drove it. She was taught the new way of holding the wheel at 9 and 3 and to grip the wheel. That style does not suit the IG at all. I told to her relax her hands, do not grip which improved things but she was still nervous and steering within the white lines. I told her to let go of the wheel and the IG will still go straight and you don't need to make those micro corrections. She did and she was fine after that. However, my wife really cannot handle it and won't drive it. The more uncomfortable (scared) you are to drive it, the harder you grip the wheel and the more likely you will oversteer it and be constantly moving around.

You sit up high in the IG. the body rolls a bit and because of that height, your head sways a bit. Your brain tells you to correct but you don't need to But if you do correct a movement that the chassis is not suffering, you ending driving the car wobbly constantly trying to correct something that never needed correction. Some people can't dial that out of their head. Some people can.

I find it similar to the old Discovery 1 and 2 in that respect. You just need to relax on the wheel


A couple of months ago, I drove 600 miles cross country with just two short 20 minute breaks. The temperature was -6c in places, some in freezing fog. Some in the dark, some in the day. Barely any of it was motorway. I got out of the IG at the end, and I wasn't stiff or uncomfortable or tired. I was surprised as I did the journey in a BMW Z4 the year before and my legs were sore afterwards.

Where the car is weaker is if you want to maintain 60-70mph. It starts to drink a lot after 55mph. It's a car that is better on rural lanes and slower main roads with a bit of twist and turn. If on fast straight roads (aka Motorways in the UK) over long distances, then the new Defender or Range Rover would beat it. I would pick one of them if that was the sort of driving I was mostly doing.

Totally agree on just relaxing, you can let go of the wheel and it goes straight, will nearly re-center if I don't rush from a sharp turn, just need to sort the last part. Hold steering wheel with 1 hand and just a couple of fingers to keep steady. I really do not notice it and wish we didn't keep bringing it up like it was an issue. Yes it's not like a normal car but it's also not a problem.
Motorway is best kept to around 60mph if you want to get reasonable economy.
I love driving mine and have other nice cars to use but prefer driving the Grenadier

 

[MattA]

I am in the same boat, LR owner, we have had 4 of them and travelled all over Australia
I have been following the IG story from it’s conception and love the whole concept and design, I would buy one in a heart beat but….
I have been also following this owners forum very closely
Electrical issues are common but not to concerned as they can be slowly sorted and none are showstoppers
Heating and cooling can also be fixed except for the condensation dripping, a major long term issue in a hot climate which I will not accept due to long term damage that will do
OP mentioned lift and 35’s , read the thread about the front drive shaft issue with no proven fix, yeah pass
Service issues with suppliers and availability and no service manual as promised
If these, or at least a few of these issues get rectified I will buy one, until then I watch and try to justify ownership to myself

 

[RYAustralia]

Welcome to the club

I have lot of history with Land Rovers, starting from RR 3-door V8 -80, which I bought -92 and still have. Later RRC 4-door, many Discovery 1 diesel and petrol (still think that -93 200Tdi is my best allrounder), couple of Disco 2 and Defenders, plus Freelanders and one D3. Later ones are not interesting. Series vehicles are too low for me.

Gren has been with me for half a year and close to 3000 km (small island, you know). I have zero issues with steering, directional stability is perfect, centering could be better but is OK.

Ground clearance has already been addressed. I don't intend to have suspension lift, at least now.

Front bumper is a disappointment. This corner got a very mild hit to a stone and bent 5 cm back so that tyre rubbed to plastic wheelarch liner extension (also protecting the cooler).

I want to have a stronger front bumper but it's not yet solved. Possibly also winch at same time.

Woah. So glad to be in Aus and getting metal ones. That wouldn’t last 5 minutes round here with all the wildlife !!!

 

[rovie]

Woah. So glad to be in Aus and getting metal ones. That wouldn’t last 5 minutes round here with all the wildlife !!!

I would also prefer metal ones. Two years ago I thought about fitting a metal one with a Roobar and only moving the Grenadier on private property. But then I decided against it, because I didn't always want to change vehicles and then also drive the Grenadier in everyday life. I have to make do with plastic. So far it has worked.

 

[Jeremy996]

I've put 30,000 miles on mine, (before I drowned it). I'm getting severe withdrawal symptoms at the moment, so I visited it today in the dealer compound. After 19 years of driving a '89 LR110CSW and a '91 Defender 90, the Grenadier is like a magic carpet. The steering is easily adjusted to and the sticktion in the steering damper wears off after a few thousand miles. My wife won't drive it because she sees it as too big, too powerful and automatic, so immediately suspect. (She drives a Fiat 500C usually and our little sports cars when she wants to).

Reliability wise, it has never 'failed to proceed'; I have always got to where I was going, but that is not to say it was fault free. As an early release vehicle, I had issues with the software crying wolf, unglued door seals giving me sills filled with water and a random boot wash, water in the footwell from a misrouted AC drain, an ECall error and the tyre sensors going on strike for half a day. The dealer has sorted everything, lending me a random selection of South Korean vehicles.

I did not get on with the new Defender, as it is too 'pretty', too plush, far too complicated and my local dealer is the last place I'd take a sick car. There are lots of LR independent specialists for a reason!

If you are comfortable in a new Defender, you wil find the Grenadier a bit 'rugged', but that is part of the appeal to me. The big money in the Grenadier has been spent on the running gear and the body in white. The new Defender is more 'design led' and the running gear is more LR5/RR Lite.

 

[Tinerfeño]

The new Defender is more 'design led' and the running gear is more LR5/RR Lite.

Pretty equal to D5. Only some programmation and body differs.

 

[Tr182md]

Thanks for all the input. I will borrow my friends and see how it goes. Now is a good time to buy as they are offering about 7500 in incentives on the
"fixed price" since so many are sitting on the lot right now. Ordering one is scary because we have an unpredictable tariff situation here in the US. I would hate to pay 25% tariff on the car. So the ones on the lot are probably the best bet.

I thought the bumper was more rugged, which is one of the things I was looking for. Makes sense because I was wondering how they got away with a metal bumper when Landrover claims they had to go with a pediestrian safe bumper.

 

[pmatusov]

I will borrow my friends and see how it goes.

Just keep in mind that steering gear is tighter when the truck is very new, and it loosens up - and recenters fine afterwards.

 

[pmatusov]

I thought the bumper was more rugged, which is one of the things I was looking for.

NAS Grenadiers have all-steel bumpers, EU gets plastic.

 

[Commodore]

You can fit 35x10.5r17 and 255/85r17 tire on factory wheels and factory suspension without any rubbing. They are both 35" tires. Yes they are slightly skinnier than the more common 35x12.50 but they have the same contact patch when aired down and they get better sidewall deflection at the same pressure. It is a great tire for this truck. I don't see needing larger unless you just want to go rock crawling and if that is your goal then by an old rubicon that you don't mind beating the shit out of.

I also have a defender in the driveway and a range rover sport. Those are both better on the highway. They are easier to drive 95 mph through Utah and they are quieter. I do think that they Ineos has better seats.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I would also prefer metallic ones. Two years ago I thought about fitting a metal one with a Roobar and only moving the Grenadier on private property. But then I decided against it, because I didn't always want to change vehicles and then also drive the Grenadier in everyday life. I have to make do with plastic. So far it has worked.

Wait - what??? You guys have plastic bumpers in the UK and Europe?

 

[rovie]

Wait - what??? You guys have plastic bumpers in the UK and Europe?

Unfortunately yes. Completely made of plastic at the front. The corners at the back are made of steel.