Internal Connectors for External Roof Power Outlets (U.S.) - Discovery, Investigation, and Question

[Loc Nar]

I am in the process of following in @Jean Mercier's footsteps to connect the solar panel on my tent through the rear right external roof power outlet (as described by Jean here). As shown in Jean's helpful pic as well as the Buzz Overland pic of the same area in their Gutted Grenadier thread, the internal connector for the roof power outlet in their builds was a DTP connector - just like the connector at the external power outlet:

Jean's pic:

Buzz Overland's pic:

Imagine my surprise when I finally removed enough trim panels to take a peek under the headliner and found that unlike the internal DTP connectors shown in the pics above, my internal right rear roof power outlet connector is something completely different - here they are disconnected:

I've done some online research trying to find out more about these types of connectors and have identified them as Yazaki Part Number 7282-6445-40 (my first pic above - male housing) and Yazaki Part Number 7283-6445-40 (second pic above - female housing). These parts can be found on Aliexpress and Amazon as "7282-6445-40 7283-6445-40 Automotive Electric Tail Door Wiring Socket" or by just searching the individual product numbers. I ordered this Male/Female Set from Aliexpress.

The failure to find DTP connectors as expected is a little concerning, since the Yazaki info (7283-6445-40 and 7282-6445-40) for these connectors both rate their "Allowable Current" at 20A:

We've likely all seen this diagram showing the amp ratings of the roof outlets:

I understand that in the standard setup the driver's side front outlet is rated at 25A for a light bar and the total for the remaining outlets is 25A, which is understandable since those outlets are all daisy chained together (in the standard configuration) - as shown in this Buzz Overland pic:

But if the internal connectors (like the ones shown in my pics above) are rated at 20A (unlike the DTP connectors rated at 25A), does this pose a possible problem if we hook 25A worth of gear to our three rear and passenger side power outlets?

 

[Jean Mercier]

I am in the process of following in @Jean Mercier's footsteps to connect the solar panel on my tent through the rear right external roof power outlet (as described by Jean here). As shown in Jean's helpful pic as well as the Buzz Overland pic of the same area in their Gutted Grenadier thread, the internal connector for the roof power outlet in their builds was a DTP connector - just like the connector at the external power outlet:

Jean's pic:

View attachment 7878807

Buzz Overland's pic:

View attachment 7878809

Imagine my surprise when I finally removed enough trim panels to take a peek under the headliner and found that unlike the internal DTP connectors shown in the pics above, my internal right rear roof power outlet connector is something completely different - here they are disconnected:

View attachment 7878810
View attachment 7878811

I've done some online research trying to find out more about these types of connectors and have identified them as Yazaki Part Number 7282-6445-40 (my first pic above - male housing) and Yazaki Part Number 7283-6445-40 (second pic above - female housing). These parts can be found on Aliexpress and Amazon as "7282-6445-40 7283-6445-40 Automotive Electric Tail Door Wiring Socket" or by just searching the individual product numbers. I ordered this Male/Female Set from Aliexpress.

The failure to find DTP connectors as expected is a little concerning, since the Yazaki data info (7283-6445-40 and 7282-6445-40) for these connectors rate their "Allowable Current" at 20A.. We've likely all seen this diagram showing the amp ratings of the roof outlets:

View attachment 7878814

I understand that in the standard setup the driver's side front outlet is rated at 25A for a light bar and the total for the remaining outlets is 25A, which is understandable since those outlets are all daisy chained together - as shown in this Buzz Overland pic:

View attachment 7878821


But if the internal connectors (like the ones shown in my pics above) are rated at 20A (unlike the DTP connectors rated at 25A), does this pose a possible problem if we hook 25A worth of gear to our three rear and passenger side power outlets?

If indeed the connectors are rated 20 A, in theory this is a problem, as Ineos is saying we can connect up to 25A to the circuit, meaning MAXIMUM 25A to ANY connector!
In that case they indeed made a wrong choice!
I am wondering what the connector looks like at the front right outlet (LED bar outlet). If it is also a 20A connector they really are VERY wrong. Because they say you can connect a LED bar of 25A!

Concerning the 3 other connectors: if you distribute your gear over the different connectors, each one less than 20A and in total less than 25A, it isn't a problem for the connector.
Now, usually, there is a quite high safety margin on the "rating" of electrical devices and connectors, and you shouldn't be too worried.
You have also to evaluate what the probability is that you will switch all your gear "on" at the same time!

If you "copy" my solution (using a connector as a solar panel input), then I would for sure not input more than 20A in it. Because: sun = heat + much sun = 20A (if you have a solar panel with that maximum rating) and that perhaps for hours .... hmmm, don't use a solar panel with a rating of 25A.

IMHO (In My Humble Opinion)

 

[Loc Nar]

I have freed the power outlet cable from its interior retaining clip and can now pull it down below the headliner.

I've disassembled the female connector and, for peace of mind, may just go ahead and replace it with a female DTP connector and go that route for my solar cable.

 

[Loc Nar]

And . . . Bob's your uncle. Mission accomplished, and I used the leftover female Yazaki piece as a dummy plug for the male connector. The white plastic dummy plug inserts for DT connectors fit snugly within.

Nestled back into its home (with a beat to hell retainer clip):

 

[Clark Kent]

And . . . Bob's your uncle. Mission accomplished, and I used the leftover female Yazaki piece as a dummy plug for the male connector. The white plastic dummy plug inserts for DT connectors fit snugly within.

View attachment 7878854
View attachment 7878855

Nestled back into its home:

View attachment 7878856

Great detective work @Loc Nar

Presumably the harness wire gauge is the same and only the connector hardware is different so there is no issue doing the swap out. It makes me think there was a production specification change so VINs up to a point have Deutsch then Yazaki onwards. Another reason that a VIN is important when buying genuine spare parts.

It would be good to see another MY24 example to see what type of connectors are fitted.

 

[Loc Nar]

Great detective work @Loc Nar

Presumably the harness wire gauge is the same and only the connector hardware is different so there is no issue doing the swap out. It makes me think there was a production specification change so VINs up to a point have Deutsch then Yazaki onwards. Another reason that a VIN is important when buying genuine spare parts.

It would be good to see another MY24 example to see what type of connectors are fitted.

For what it's worth, I'm confident this "production specification change" saved money.

 

[Clark Kent]

For what it's worth, I'm confident this "production specification change" saved money.

Yep. No need for an IP rated package in that location and the Yazaki looks weatherproof anyway.

 

[Loc Nar]

Yep. No need for an IP rated package in that location and the Yazaki looks weatherproof anyway.

There is, however, a need for a 25A rating, and I'm left wondering about that . . .

Hey, if we have any electrical engineers here, Yazaki has a Product Specification .pdf for both the Male and Female connectors. Maybe someone smarter than I am can figure out whether they are truly rated at 20A max.

 

[parb]

Could you confirm the wire gauge used for that circuit?
I assume its a 3m (9ft) long wire to the relay? That should be a 10AWG wire, but i think the connector in the 2.8mm series from yaseco only goes to 12 gauge.
And 12 gauge should be no longer than 1.8m (5.9ft). Do you think the total length of the wire is 1.8m? If so they should be able to get away with the 2.8mm yaseco series connector, it goes up to 12AWG. It doesn't support 10AWG though (based on my reading of the yaseco manufacturers docs).

Or is this not the 2.8mm series connecter? Is the 1.6mm series? Its hard to tell on a pic.

 

[Loc Nar]

Could you confirm the wire gauge used for that circuit?
I assume its a 3m (9ft) long wire to the relay? That should be a 10AWG wire, but i think the connector in the 2.8mm series from yaseco only goes to 12 gauge.
And 12 gauge should be no longer than 1.8m (5.9ft). Do you think the total length of the wire is 1.8m? If so they should be able to get away with the 2.8mm yaseco series connector, it goes up to 12AWG. It doesn't support 10AWG though (based on my reading of the yaseco manufacturers docs).

Or is this not the 2.8mm series connecter? Is the 1.6mm series? Its hard to tell on a pic.

The wire gauge is a little hard to tell, since the wires were not stamped where I could see them. Definitely not 10 gauge. They stripped perfectly when I put them in the 14AWG slot in my automatic wire stripper:

They slid right through the 10AWG hole.

As for the length of the cable, you can eyeball that by looking at the Gutted Grenadier pic I posted above:

The cable length from the external power outlet to the Yazaki plug (now DTP in my setup) looks to be about two feet. I'm assuming the 2.8mm tab width refers to the width of the male terminals. I will try to estimate that by measuring the width of the female terminals that I clipped off and update later tonight.

 

[parb]

To me it looks like the longest path of the wire harness goes from the middle of the roof, towards the back, crosses over the roof to the other side, and then down to the C pillar and to the relay box?
~4-5 meter? 12-15ft? seems like the wire gauge is a bit thin for 25A? I would expect a 10gauge wire for that length of a run or there should be a bit of power losses.
Note that i don't think there are any safety considerations, just power losses in the cable itself.

Automotive Wire Amperage Capacity Chart - Jasco Automotive Ltd

AUTOMOTIVE Wire Amperage Capacity Chart Recommended Length and Amperage for Automotive Wire while maintaining a 2% or less voltage drop at 12 volts Automotive Wire Size 5 Amps 10 Amps 15 Amps 20 Amps 25 Amps 30 Amps 20 Gauge Wire (AWG) 4.5 ft 2.2 ft 1.6 ft . 18 Gauge Wire (AWG) 7.3 ft […]

jascoautomotive.com

 

[Loc Nar]

To me it looks like the longest path of the wire harness goes from the middle of the roof, towards the back, crosses over the roof to the other side, and then down to the C pillar and to the relay box?
~4-5 meter? 12-15ft? seems like the wire gauge is a bit thin for 25A? I would expect a 10gauge wire for that length of a run or there should be a bit of power losses.
Note that i don't think there are any safety considerations, just power losses in the cable itself.

Automotive Wire Amperage Capacity Chart - Jasco Automotive Ltd

AUTOMOTIVE Wire Amperage Capacity Chart Recommended Length and Amperage for Automotive Wire while maintaining a 2% or less voltage drop at 12 volts Automotive Wire Size 5 Amps 10 Amps 15 Amps 20 Amps 25 Amps 30 Amps 20 Gauge Wire (AWG) 4.5 ft 2.2 ft 1.6 ft . 18 Gauge Wire (AWG) 7.3 ft […]

jascoautomotive.com

Thanks. I measured the width of the clipped copper wire inside the Yazaki receptacle piece and it came to 2mm, which matches my measurement of the width of the copper in a length of stamped 12AWG cable I have. Interestingly, the cable used in the Grenadier has a very thin jacket. As for the Yazaki piece, the width of the female receptacle is approximately 3mm, which would be a good fit for the 2.8mm male terminal tab. SO, I think I had the 2.8mm versions in my Grenadier.

 

[parb]

I guess that they could go 10awg halfway and 12 awg the last 2m and that would be acceptable. I would not be too concerned with that connector, its sized for 12 awg and that can carry 25A.

 

[Loc Nar]

For anyone still interested in this, the fact that I had partially stripped the retaining clip add on to the Yazaki connector (as shown in the pics in my first post above) made it wiggle a bit when I reinserted it, and that bothered me because I could foresee it coming loose on a bumpy road. So, I did some more research and found a supplier for those little black retainer clip add-ons that slide onto the Yazaki clip here. I ordered some (they are thankfully cheap) and just installed it to the Yazaki clip so that it is now securely seated and won't rattle or come loose:

 

[255/85]

Just thought I should add in here that Yazaki components are generally considered long lasting and very durable in the Land Cruiser community. Not very scientific but I wouldn't have a problem slightly exceeding the connector's rated amp limit for a decade or two as long as the wiring gauge is up to the task.