Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

Media starting to break that production of the IG is going to be paused until 2025 due to financial troubles at one of its suppliers.

The UK dealers were just told and mine told me today but I didn't post anything until I saw it starting to appear in the media. I cant see behind the paywall but I wonder if this is recaro?

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

See it’s info like this I need!! And the humor added in didn’t go unnoticed as it made me LOL!! Why I am concerned is as usual the lack of info put out by Ineos. I have actually spoken to 3 different dealerships and even their own USA dealers couldn’t answer my questions about the shutdown. Could you imagine all the time and money spent opening a dealership on a relatively unknown brand new vehicle and a year into it finding out the home office is temporarily halting new vehicles being produced? That has to be a seriously uneasy feeling. On a different note, it’s 4am and in 2 hours I get to get into one of my Grenadiers and go get donuts for the family. It’s been a while since I have been just happy to go run errands (even if it’s just for donuts/food) so I can drive one of my beauties!

 

[landmannnn]

Right I totally get this and like I have said previously, I own TWO of these beautiful rides. I call them the “Lego SUV” to my family/friends when I explain why I purchased them and what they are. I don’t think that most potential suv buyers shopping realize just how many great parts by really great companies have been used on this vehicle. It’s pretty amazing what they have done to be honest. However, I should have worded it better. My bad. Will Ineos still have staff that will get these parts in, label them “Ineos” (maybe I am wrong & someone will point this out, but I don’t think Ineos gets their parts from Eibach/Bilstein/Bosch/Eaton/Tremec etc etc already painted and labeled “Ineos”) and send to the dealers as needed? When I hear a plant is halted and employees are on partial pay, to me this means EVERYTHING is shut down including tech and if no software update coming anytime soon (the one out now has been halted as causes info center shut downs I have been told), then the beeps and other annoying issues will continue for some time now.

Just to add to Shopkeep's post, car production lines are tailored for assembly speed.
A kit of parts for each assembly station is delivered on a just in time basis, sequenced to each vehicle, normally just a few hours ahead.
These kits are specifically made, so for example the dashboard will arrive as a completed assembly in a bespoke carrier with the fixing bolts in a plastic tray with a slot for each bolt that can be picked straight from the tray with the torx driver.
So nothing is touched by Ineos until it hits the assembly station.

It will be unlikely that the development teams have been sent home, but I am only surmising here.

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

Just to add to Shopkeep's post, car production lines are tailored for assembly speed.
A kit of parts for each assembly station is delivered on a just in time basis, sequenced to each vehicle, normally just a few hours ahead.
These kits are specifically made, so for example the dashboard will arrive as a completed assembly in a bespoke carrier with the fixing bolts in a plastic tray with a slot for each bolt that can be picked straight from the tray with the torx driver.
So nothing is touched by Ineos until it hits the assembly station.

Wow didn’t know this. VERY interesting and streamlined!! Any info on the tech side? Are engineers/software people still working on updates? I don’t know if they are at the plant or different locations. From all this new info I am reading, they probably have their own location and hopefully are working on the software update.

 

[AndreOne]

Lynn, please ask Sir. Ratcliff to buy Recaro and the issue will be solved quickly...

 

[AndreOne]

Look at it this way: added exclusivity and increased value due to rarity!

hopefully....

 

[bemax]

We all have to wait what will happen. I knew weeks before my dealer that a local supplier of an integral part of the body would stop production because someone from the factory talked to a friend of mine.
My dealer told me this would be a hoax as he recently talked to Lynn Calder who informed the dealers of marketing strategies and future projects.
He told me if Ineos would stop the car he
A.) would buy some Grenadiers for himself as they would rise in value
and
B.) that Ineos would have to pay quite a lot of money to the dealership as they have long time contracts.

Nevertheless we talked these days and he said that it is quite disturbing that the part distributes and so some customers knew from the stop of production before the dealership was informed.
But all over he kept his positive attitude as he said they would try to sell some of the stock vehicles and take orders for 2025.

What I am wondering is how the production will start over in 2025. all distributors have to start producing for the just in time deliveries again. If one fails - for what reason - the production will stuck and more money is burned.
I am totally positive about the car and a fanboy as most of you, but I get the feeling that some „negative“ posts of @AWo are more realistic than we want to accept…

 

[Jonny72]

I pressed the order button for a 1924 Edition on Sunday 22 Sep, with an estimated delivery date in January ‘25. My local dealer called on Wednesday, saying the delivery date was now scheduled for March/April. Hopefully this means a solution to the current stoppage is in the works, to allow production to restart soon. I’m not fazed by the delay, and happy to wait a bit. I’ll be trading my New Defender for the Grenadier and looking forward to the change.

 

[Bluesurf]

This is mind blowing! I'm not believing this. The shut down is over supply to the dealers? (California Dealers have 18 & 25 in stock. That is not many Grenadiers for sale) If this is true, all of us with issued Vin #'s probably won't get the car we ordered until 2025.,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Ql1416_d8&t=644s

 

[CrazyOldMan]

This is mind blowing! I'm not believing this. The shut down is over supply to the dealers? (California Dealers have 18 & 25 in stock. That is not many Grenadiers for sale) If this is true, all of us with issued Vin #'s probably won't get the car we ordered until 2025.,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Ql1416_d8&t=644s

If it doesn’t have seats in it, then yes - maybe 2025. But I am not (as usual) very interested in what Doug has to say and his speculations. As for lot inventory - if I were Ineos I would cut a deal to cover the dealers to unload it. A lot of it is quirky configs that people didn’t pick up at this point - like it has a winch and contrast frame but 18” alloys and no ladder or whatever. I think a lot of the buyers for this will be “style buyers” - not serious users with specific outdoor needs and expectations. If the price is right they just don’t care because they will get “the look.” Then they will sell it in 18 months because they don’t like the steering.

 

[anand]

This is mind blowing! I'm not believing this. The shut down is over supply to the dealers? (California Dealers have 18 & 25 in stock. That is not many Grenadiers for sale) If this is true, all of us with issued Vin #'s probably won't get the car we ordered until 2025.,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Ql1416_d8&t=644s

Taking Doug's speculation as fact is a dangerous game to play...

 

[DaveB]

Generally in a bankruptcy situation, assets can be sold off.

If Ineos is the only user for these seats (which really would make sense), why don’t they buy a license to produce them and get some one up and running making them? Maybe that is what is happening, which would also make sense from a timing perspective.

I haven’t thought about after market suppliers taking a breath to see what happens because I probably would. Why keep investing money into design and production if there will never be enough end users to buy it?

I hope others figured out quickly. Even with some of the dumb annoying stuff, I love the Grenadier and think more people will as well once they experience it. It isn’t for everyone, but it damn sure fun and much cooler than a typical SUV offering.

The front seats are standard and used in other vehicles.
The rear seats are very unique but also fairly simple.
I would think they are an Ineos design due to the batteries/electronics unde them.
The rears don't have to be Recaro and most manufacturers/owners don't put special seats in the rear.

 

[ForceV4]

This is mind blowing! I'm not believing this. The shut down is over supply to the dealers? (California Dealers have 18 & 25 in stock. That is not many Grenadiers for sale) If this is true, all of us with issued Vin #'s probably won't get the car we ordered until 2025.,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Ql1416_d8&t=644s

I’ve said it before - I’d buy a SECOND Grenadier if I could scrape up the money. We are considering it either way. I wish the QM was a bit more affordable. PS - my podcast is better..! Look up Hank Watson’s Garage Hour!

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

I’ve said it before - I’d buy a SECOND Grenadier if I could scrape up the money. We are considering it either way. I wish the QM was a bit more affordable. PS - my podcast is better..! Look up Hank Watson’s Garage Hour!

Ha I was right there with you until last week when I decided to buy a 2nd one!! I really wanted to get a matching QM but that dang 25% bs “chicken tax” puts the QM in Ford Raptor R territory and luckily the halt in production stopped them from coming into the states yet or I probably would have one. Call me crazy, which some do, but I may still get a QM once things go back to normal and they start importing them into the USA. …I’ll have to check out your podcast as need to support my fellow Grenadier owner & a quick Google search revealed “Cars, Trucks, Beers & Guns” as your discussion forum. What the heck else is there, well I would throw in family/friends but all else spot on??!!

 

[Znarfgh]

This is mind blowing! I'm not believing this. The shut down is over supply to the dealers? (California Dealers have 18 & 25 in stock. That is not many Grenadiers for sale) If this is true, all of us with issued Vin #'s probably won't get the car we ordered until 2025.,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Ql1416_d8&t=644s

Nothing mind blowing here, they have about as much information as you and I do - pure speculation on their part.

 

[bemax]

The front seats are standard and used in other vehicles.
The rear seats are very unique but also fairly simple.
I would think they are an Ineos design due to the batteries/electronics unde them.
The rears don't have to be Recaro and most manufacturers/owners don't put special seats in the rear.

But the seats still can’t be replaced by others than the ones they used because of certification requirements.
If you use other parts those have to be part of the homologation of the car. The car has to be weighed again and this will be part of the taxation in various countries for co2 reasons. It would probably be a (nearly) never ending story for bureaucracy…
Combined that with the probably lower than expected demand in all the markets.
What would the decision be?

 

[anand]

Combined that with the probably lower than expected demand in all the markets.

I think the one market that this statement isn't accurate for is the US. Yes there are plenty of units available, but having spoken to a number of dealers, they are delighted at their sales figures

 

[DoubleDoom]

Could you imagine all the time and money spent opening a dealership on a relatively unknown brand new vehicle and a year into it finding out the home office is temporarily halting new vehicles being produced?

I can imagine they would be frustrated. However, most of them have enough stock to see them over.
And remember this is not just an Ineos problem. The larger brands are deleting options and have OEM seating to fall back on but other smaller brands used Recaro too and are having the same issue.

The new Mini was delayed by several months earlier in the year due to a production issue. BMW have just last week paused production due to Continential brakes issues. Pauses are not uncommon.

Combined that with the probably lower than expected demand in all the markets.

Remember that they only started advertising in July and that was very light touch. It's a niche vehicle with limited awareness, limited advertising and not available in every country. Mexico and China only just coming on line now. The MY23 and MY23.5 got a lot of negative reviews over the well-documented software issues or build issues, which they have mostly ironed out now.

Dealers have been reporting that too many vehicles they were supplied with did not have a high enough specification, and they want higher specs at higher prices as they feel they will sell more. Ineos has also said that they are going to use that approach in some markets (e.g., the UK), where fewer sales of higher spec/value/profit margin will be the order of the day. UK promotions are focusing on equestrian for example. Ineos is still learning its market and its different in every country. Its early days and I think that building over 22,000 vehicles in less than 2 years is not a bad start.

 

[DaveB]

But the seats still can’t be replaced by others than the ones they used because of certification requirements.
If you use other parts those have to be part of the homologation of the car. The car has to be weighed again and this will be part of the taxation in various countries for co2 reasons. It would probably be a (nearly) never ending story for bureaucracy…
Combined that with the probably lower than expected demand in all the markets.
What would the decision be?

I assume they are talking with Recaro to come up with a solution
Recaro are able to still manufacture so maybe they will place a bulk order, rather than typical just in time delivery.

 

[ForceV4]

Ha I was right there with you until last week when I decided to buy a 2nd one!! I really wanted to get a matching QM but that dang 25% bs “chicken tax” puts the QM in Ford Raptor R territory and luckily the halt in production stopped them from coming into the states yet or I probably would have one. Call me crazy, which some do, but I may still get a QM once things go back to normal and they start importing them into the USA. …I’ll have to check out your podcast as need to support my fellow Grenadier owner & a quick Google search revealed “Cars, Trucks, Beers & Guns” as your discussion forum. What the heck else is there, well I would throw in family/friends but all else spot on??!! traffic

That is awesome. I would love to see both of your grenadier side-by-side. Yes, cars trucks beers and guns is our byline. The show is a cavalcade of ADHD fun!

 

[Zimm]

I think the one market that this statement isn't accurate for is the US. Yes there are plenty of units available, but having spoken to a number of dealers, they are delighted at their sales figures

The preorder "no dicker sticker" 2x'd the dealer profits at the same time Ford etc. were slashing off list to move a glut. They had to be comparatively happy. My curiosity has been what happens in year 2 and 3 when you've got actual comparative shopping going on. I guess we'll find out shortly.

Is there any particular reason they would open up to you about their business? I have clients that I'll know are slow, and in a conversation everything is roses. It's just never in anyone's interest to be completely straight up about sales profits, especially to direct associates. It's why dealers weren't told of the potential stoppage until it was decided.