Grenadier Weight

[jamgolf]

We use MPG here so I had to use a converter I found online. It said 12L/100km is 28.23 MPG (US gallon). Does that sound correct?

Try this
12l/100km => 19.6012 mpg (US)

 

[Krabby]

If that's the case, I would dance a jig to get 28+mpg in this truck (especially beyond 55mph/88kph) - my GMC Sierra gets about 19 mpg highway on premium unleaded.

 

[jamgolf]

Just returned from a 2700-mile road trip in a 4Runner and got 16.5 mpg. Prior to this, I had a 200 Series Land Cruiser with front+rear air lockers and full skid plates and would get 14.5 mpg on a similar trip. I hope Ineos can be a bit more frugal. I would be satisfied if it can get 18 mpg on a similar trip but I suspect, based on weight and aerodynamics, that it might actually be in the 16 mpg range.

 

[stickshifter]

Having owned two Toyota 200 Series Landcruisers, I find the weight is about what I might expect for something that is built to be tough and comfortable. However, one area that has been necessary in the Landcruiser in order to utilise this toughness and give the extra payload that long-distance remote travel requires, is a GVM upgrade. Conveniently, one can increase the standard 3350kg to 4200Kg GVM post-rego just with a suspension upgrade. As I am aware, this is possible as the axle and running gear components are designed strong enough to carry the extra weight.

So, as it appears the Grenadier is designed with this same toughness, it is a little bit of a shame that the payload (i.e. GVM) was not set higher as standard to match this great engineering. If everything is so well engineered, why didn't they add in some higher rated suspension components as an option? You know what I mean, 'built for purpose' rather than 'modified later for purpose' would have been nice ?

What's makes this somewhat inconvenient is that, while a Landcruiser can get a GVM upgrade right now off the shelf, it will undoubtedly take some time before one is available for the Grenadier, especially one that has top of the line springs and remote-res shockies, etc. Add in that long range tank upgrade we hope to get at some point, and payload becomes even more an issue...

So yep, while this may not effect all users of course, for those needing a long-distance expedition oriented vehicle, 'heavy' by itself is not the issue in my mind. It is that the advantage of this extra strength and therefore extra weight leads to a disadvantage in payload, which would have been nice to have been fixed at source.

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Everything with vehicles is a trade-off. The engineers at Ineos could have designed the Grenadier for a higher payload, but probably at the cost of wheel articulation (i.e. off-road performance). Take the Jeep Wrangler as an alternate example: excellent wheel articulation and a soft suspension that is absolutely amazing in the rocks - but at the cost of payload (most 4-door Wranglers have a payload of around 875 pounds). So, I think its safe to assume that the Ineos engineers wanted a 4-door wagon with really good payload for its class (its much better than the competition in North America), but they also wanted a vehicle that could handle moderately technical terrain - so this is the compromise they engineered. Any increase in one variable (payload vs suspension travel) results in a decrease in the other.

Another example of a trade off is vehicle weight vs off-road performance and fuel economy: as weight goes up, you get greater strength, durability, and capacity to carry payload, but fuel economy goes down, as does performance on technical rock climbs, driving in soft sand, etc.

Tires are another great example of engineering compromises: every change you make to tread design or rubber compound increases performance in one area at the cost of performance in another area.

Basically, every vehicle is engineered with intentional compromises to meet the intended end-use of that vehicle.

 

[Krabby]

Try this
12l/100km => 19.6012 mpg (US)

Makes much more sense and what I expected and accept. But man, 28 sounded too good to be true.

 

[Jean Mercier]

MPG ... I love abbreviations ... and then you have US Gallons and other gallons ... why don't all people use the metric standard ISO system?

 

[Krabby]

MPG ... I love abbreviations ... and then you have US Gallons and other gallons ... why don't all people use the metric standard ISO system?
The US stands tall (in feet and inches) with its brothers and sisters in Liberia and Myanmar!

 

[Jean Mercier]

The US, Phillap

... with its brothers and sisters in Liberia ...!

Been in Liberia twice, job related, first time two weeks, one year later one week, shortly after civil war. It took me one week to understand their English

 

[YIPPE]

I would argue that the over engineering in the Grenadier is in the right places I.e body..aluminum but double walled, stout frame, beefy axles, tremec xfer case, strong doors which can carry 110 kilos each, a roof that can carry amazing amount of static and dynamic load. These are things you donât want them skimping on. Things like leather, overt number of cpus, whiz bang feature laden electronics, 15 speakers, etc. is where it should be decontented. Now these features donât add crazy amount of weight but I would say still a ~100 lbs saved. Now the Grenadier being a modern car still has to accommodate for modern safety needs like air bags and crash protection. Those things add serious weight
Letâs look at 3 examples for comparison

1. LC200: The 2021 model weighed ~5800 lbs. While it was a very high quality build Iâd argue that there are some places where the Grenadier pips it for beefiness. No F&R lockers or metal bumpers. Plus the LC doesnât have a heavy front axle. Plus I donât know if this weight is wet or dry weight
2. Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 2021: The Jeep weighs 4450 lbs. Not as robustly built, the roof isnât even a sealed affair, very low payload. By the time you beef up the Jeep to Grenadier levels you will be looking at 5000lbs weight and still poor payload and interior space. Similar to the LC I donât know if this is a wet or dry weight. Jeep and most manufacturers are notorious in not being clear on how they specify weight and payload
3. G Wagon: I can give a bit more hands on experience with my 1997 diesel G. Arguably the most apples to apples comparison due to the Magna connection. Mine weighs 5440 lbs with 90% tank, all fluids, a half sleeping platform and no driver. That leaves me with a payload balance of 1500 lbs. It has metal bumpers, triple locked and solid axles F&R and arguably almost very similar dimensionally to the Grenadier. It doesnât have remotely the same degree of active safety as the Grenadier.
As you can see the Grenadier isnât that heavy or out of the ballpark when compared to similar peers. Iâd argue that through some smart material and componentry choices they have actually invested the weight in the right areas like frame, body and axles.

Is the grenadier weights on website, wet or dry? I've heard 90% full tank which I wonder why would it be 90% I haven't seen anything myself, but have been curious.

 

[emax]

We use MPG here so I had to use a converter I found online. It said 12L/100km is 28.23 MPG (US gallon). Does that sound correct?

No. That's 8,33 L/100 km.

Convert 28.23 U.S. MPG to Liters per 100 km

What is the overseas equivalent of 28.23 American MPG? You can use this easy, mobile-friendly calculator to convert fuel economy from 28.23 Miles per U.S. gallon (MPG) into Liters per 100 km.

www.calculateme.com

 

[Tazzieman]

why don't all people use the metric standard ISO system?

I think you know cost is the problem. Just imagine!

 

[Jean Mercier]

When I was a kid I remember looking at this event in Europe on TV, they did it in one night:
http://realscandinavia.com/this-day-in-history-swedish-traffic-switches-sides-september-3-1967/#:~:text=On%20Sunday,%20September%203,%201967,road%20was%20not%20taken%20lightly.

It had a cost ...
But so easy afterwards when driving their cars to al the neighboring countries (and also for the neighbors).

I can understand that the Australians don't do it ... no neighbors on land ... I don't understand why the Brits never did it! It is an island, but still, so close to European mainland!

 

[DaveB]

MPG ... I love abbreviations ... and then you have US Gallons and other gallons ... why don't all people use the metric standard ISO system?

Australia changed to metric in 1974 when I was 12 and just starting High School
It was so much better nd easier to work with.
Although we do still often use feet and inches to describe a persons height.

A very large building company from Australia opened up in the US and found that errors in calculating and measuring in imperial fractions caused 30% more waste on home builds and also lead to poor workmanship.
Some tradies were measuring down to 1/8" others 1/16" and some thought 1/4" was good enough.

Compare that to Australia where everyone would be measuring to the millimetre or for finishing work even to half a mm
It doesn't take much thought to work out which tape measure would be easier to use

1" = 25.4mm

 

[DaveB]

Is the grenadier weights on website, wet or dry? I've heard 90% full tank which I wonder why would it be 90% I haven't seen anything myself, but have been curious.

 

[Krabby]

Australia changed to metric in 1974 when I was 12 and just starting High School
It was so much better nd easier to work with.
Although we do still often use feet and inches to describe a persons height.

A very large building company from Australia opened up in the US and found that errors in calculating and measuring in imperial fractions caused 30% more waste on home builds and also lead to poor workmanship.
Some tradies were measuring down to 1/8" others 1/16" and some thought 1/4" was good enough.

Compare that to Australia where everyone would be measuring to the millimetre or for finishing work even to half a mm
It doesn't take much thought to work out which tape measure would be easier to use

1" = 25.4mm
View attachment 7799406
View attachment 7799405

All kidding aside, and putting away the stubborn American in me, it just doesn’t make sense to not switch. I’m sure logistically it would be a major pain in the ass in the short term, but Jeeze. Metric makes so much Effing sense.

I taught middle school math (12-14yo) for years and fractions kick their assess. Base 10 is just a smidge easier than base 2.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Believe me or not, but I have this at home ...

Some weeks ago I was at my oldest son home to help him, and I said, "5cm my son". He answered: "impossible dad, too wide" ...

 

[DaveB]

All kidding aside, and putting away the stubborn American in me, it just doesn’t make sense to not switch. I’m sure logistically it would be a major pain in the ass in the short term, but Jeeze. Metric makes so much Effing sense.

I taught middle school math (12-14yo) for years and fractions kick their assess. Base 10 is just a smidge easier than base 2.

While ever they government keeps changing it's mind or introducing laws that are vague nothing will happen.

 

[stickshifter]

MPG ... I love abbreviations ... and then you have US Gallons and other gallons ... why don't all people use the metric standard ISO system?

I think that many people here in the U.S. believe that the "C" in Celsius stands for "Communist" units of measurement, so we stick to measuring temperature in "F" (which are "Freedom" units of measurement). But don't quote me on that

 

[DaveB]

I think that many people here in the U.S. believe that the "C" in Celsius stands for "Communist" units of measurement, so we stick to measuring temperature in "F" (which are "Freedom" units of measurement). But don't quote me on that

No I think the "C" stands for common sense and the "F" stands for F**cked up

 

[klarie]

The time I lived in Ireland they were just converting from imperial to metric. The still drive on the left.. but that was a huge effort to replace all traffic signs from mph to km/h 2005.. time flies. In fact - in most scientific applications / precision engineering there is metric anyway.
In Firearms, is often imperial - Got a whole set of imperial measured tools for my Hornady and Ruger equipment and the guy next door owns a Harley.. a proper customer of Loctite and imperial type tools.
But in sense of calculation the metric system is easier.
In flight its still feet and "nautical" miles (knots) - that something entirely different.. but I do not know what type of nuts n'bolts is used there. Metric or imperial..