General Motors banned from sharing customer location and behaviour

[holdmybeer]

“GM monitored and sold people’s precise geolocation data and driver behavior information, sometimes as often as every three seconds”

Fuckers.

FTC to ban GM from sharing connected vehicle data with consumer reporting agencies

The proposed order is the FTC's first action related to connected vehicle data.

www.detroitnews.com

Related ... do we know for certain if Grenadiers have a SIM card and transcevier/modem for any present or future purpose? They're so cheap that I've heard automakers install them in every model, activated or not, just in case.

 

[Krabby]

GM was just trying to repay the American people for financially bailing them out a while back. Fuckers indeed.

 

[LRNAD90]

GM is not the only auto maker doing this..

 

[Jiman01]

I’m sure per NHTSA they can download info from your vehicle (vehicle telemetry) after an accident but I don’t think the Grenadier has any live connectivity to INEOS until they plug you in at the dealer.

Just thinking/writing out loud…There's no GPS in the truck is there? Speed limit warnings work via camera, and preloaded maps, correct? Same for the off-road breadcrumb feature? If there's GPS than your driving habits can be tracked.

My guess is that Google Maps, Waze, Apple Maps, etc…probabably gathers/profits more from info about your driving than INEOS does.

 

[Eric]

I’m sure per NHTSA they can download info from your vehicle (vehicle telemetry) after an accident but I don’t think the Grenadier has any live connectivity to INEOS until they plug you in at the dealer.

Just thinking/writing out loud…There's no GPS in the truck is there? Speed limit warnings work via camera, and preloaded maps, correct? Same for the off-road breadcrumb feature? If there's GPS than your driving habits can be tracked.

My guess is that Google Maps, Waze, Apple Maps, etc…probabably gathers/profits more from info about your driving than INEOS does.

Pathfinder does use GPS

 

[ADVAW8S]

Here in the US, we do not have the right to own our data like in the EU. Many companies collect so much data on us through our interactions at stores, driving, using electronics. These companies are always looking for a new revenue stream and selling our data is one way they do it. The best example about data was a Dad who was very religious sueing Target. He was sueing them because they kept sending to his young daughter, coupons for baby food, diapers, clothing. The dad was thinking his daughter was being groomed by Target and set out to make a point that Target and many corporations are evil. Target finally responded and shared the data. His daughter was buying/looking at things like prenatal vitamins, strollers, baby food. The data collected and predictive analytics said the next thing this person will need to buy is diapers and baby food. So we need to send coupons. The dad was quite surprised that his daughter was pregnant when she finally admitted it.

Moral of story, get used to data being sold or help get a bill pass (California already has passed a bill) that allows you to tell corporations that they can't sell your data.

 

[holdmybeer]

Yes, we have try to change laws. In North America, it's tough because it's already so well established. There are billion dollar business models ready to lobby against any law changes. On the pro-privacy side, it's amateur hour.

IME most people value convenience or cheapness more than security or privacy. And if pressed to think about this ... well that takes time and critical thinking skills and that's a big ask.

So back to our 2023 or 2024 Grenadiers ... definitively, is there a SIM card and transceiver for any purpose? Any insight into this from insiders or deep knowledge holders? @Rok_Dr ? @anand ?

 

[LRNAD90]

So back to our 2023 or 2024 Grenadiers ... definitively, is there a SIM card and transceiver for any purpose? Any insight into this from insiders or deep knowledge holders? @Rok_Dr ? @anand ?

My money is on 'Yes there is', but hoping I'm wrong. Most cars (particularly in the luxury classes) have had cellular connectivity for one use or another for the better part of a decade now..

Of course, the reality is there is no expectation of privacy anymore. The phone everyone carries around with them is constantly collecting your data, cameras on the side of the road, plate readers on police and private vehicles, Bluetooth devices collecting (shared) data from your phones as you drive by. Maybe it is a moot point, but I'd still like the option of a car that isn't..

 

[anand]

So back to our 2023 or 2024 Grenadiers ... definitively, is there a SIM card and transceiver for any purpose? Any insight into this from insiders or deep knowledge holders? @Rok_Dr ? @anand ?

From what I have been told, there is no data being sent in either direction, however, I believe the North American modules have the eCall module for the sake of global continuity; however it is not operational in North America

 

[holdmybeer]

From what I have been told, there is no data being sent in either direction, however, I believe the North American modules have the eCall module for the sake of global continuity; however it is not operational in North America

Good to know. Not surprising. So let’s locate the module and then … maybe something happens to it.

“Not operational” might mean “not operational yet.”

 

[ecohen2]

I find it hard to believe they are putting SIMs etc in the grenadier and not using the connection at all... It also seems like we would "see" the sim number somewhere in the vehicle documentation... I have on other vehicles I own that did have a sim..

 

[Rok_Dr]

Yes, we have try to change laws. In North America, it's tough because it's already so well established. There are billion dollar business models ready to lobby against any law changes. On the pro-privacy side, it's amateur hour.

IME most people value convenience or cheapness more than security or privacy. And if pressed to think about this ... well that takes time and critical thinking skills and that's a big ask.

So back to our 2023 or 2024 Grenadiers ... definitively, is there a SIM card and transceiver for any purpose? Any insight into this from insiders or deep knowledge holders? @Rok_Dr ? @anand ?

My understanding is no Sim card or transceiver is installed for Australia and other markets that don't have the e call facility.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ADVAW8S]

My L663 has a SIM card but does not work. It was installed for their services but if you didn't sign up for it you still get it. Just like the people with no heated seats, still have the wiring.

 

[ecohen2]

Well if you believe AI this is your answer:

I cannot find any documentation anywhere that would indicate the Grenadier has the ability to send or receive data. What it does do is collect data in the ECU to be collected after a crash... Pretty common...

The website and purchasing process collect data, but that is also common: https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/us/privacy

 

[holdmybeer]

Well if you believe AI this is your answer:

I appreciate the effort, @ecohen2 !

For fun, I just asked another LLM the same thing and tells me this. So some of us apparently have an eSIM for emergency calls. Okay. Believable. But its source is THIS forum. Still, maybe true. Anyways, the speculation we're spewing here is being fed back into the machine to "answer" our own questions!

LLMs ... We want to believe them, don't we? They sound so confident!

 

[LRNAD90]

Ah, AI..

A whole other ball of wax, but of similar concern I suppose..

'Scheming' AI bot ChatGPT tried to stop itself being shut down

During testing, ChatGPT's new model, o1, attempted to disable an oversight mechanism when it was led to believe it would be switched off.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tazzieman]

Call me old fashioned but I'm not too concerned about anyone knowing where I am or what I'm buying. Except when I'm involved in heists , or buying adult products online.
YMMV.

 

[DaveB]

Here in the US, we do not have the right to own our data like in the EU. Many companies collect so much data on us through our interactions at stores, driving, using electronics. These companies are always looking for a new revenue stream and selling our data is one way they do it. The best example about data was a Dad who was very religious sueing Target. He was sueing them because they kept sending to his young daughter, coupons for baby food, diapers, clothing. The dad was thinking his daughter was being groomed by Target and set out to make a point that Target and many corporations are evil. Target finally responded and shared the data. His daughter was buying/looking at things like prenatal vitamins, strollers, baby food. The data collected and predictive analytics said the next thing this person will need to buy is diapers and baby food. So we need to send coupons. The dad was quite surprised that his daughter was pregnant when she finally admitted it.

Moral of story, get used to data being sold or help get a bill pass (California already has passed a bill) that allows you to tell corporations that they can't sell your data.

I love the fact the "very religious" dad was tracking the ads that Target was sending to his "young daughter" but had no idea she was sexually active.
I hope she was at least over 16 and the father "Billy Joe Jimbob" wasn't a close relative.
Maybe he should have stopped worrying about Target tracking his life and spent more time looking after his family.

If you notice anytime you search for a product online you start getting hit with ads on your computer and phone for similar items.
Been happening for years.

 

[DaveB]

Call me old fashioned but I'm not too concerned about anyone knowing where I am or what I'm buying. Except when I'm involved in heists , or buying adult products online.
YMMV.

Those in the group who regularly go into the bush with a shovel and a roll of carpet may have concerns.
They may start getting ads from Rugs-a-Million, along with bags of lime and post hole diggers.

 

[Tazzieman]

Those in the group who regularly go into the bush with a shovel and a roll of carpet may have concerns.

Those sorts of people drive 50 year old fourbies. Ask me how I know