General Gasoline Grenadier on hill climbs

[Dinaric Voyager]

Hello!

I’m about to get my Grenadier, but I’m not set on that eternal diesel vs gasoline debate…
I’m leaning towards gasoline.

I’m not super concerned about gas mileage and I’d like to have a bit more highway juice for overtaking. I won’t be doing much towing, not offroad anyway.
Also, it can get really cold in the winter mornings from where I come from, like -25*C (-13*F), and even -35*C (-31*F) isn’t unheard of… Also, no AdBlue, no DPF, easier/cheaper maintenance…

That much for gasoline pros.

I’m only concerned with gasoline offroad performance. There’s this section that I’ll be passing through many times in many conditions on my way to the cabin in the mountains…

It’s approximately a mile long tricky stretch of mostly dirt “road” covered with a layer of leaves and mud - that turns to very slick stuff every time that it rains - every third day ;-)!
It has an average continuous grade of 16-18% that increases to 22-25% at sections.

With any amount of snow it becomes almost impassable of course, so I’m not even considering that, just the summer period.
In your experience - would gasoline be able to cope with it with ease - fully loaded car, but without a trailer?

I’m sure that diesel would. 550Nm @1250 rpm and 56,7:1 final gearing!

But gasoline has 450Nm @1750 rpm and 53,8:1 final gearing.

This means diesel has 29% more pulling power @1750 rpm and probably in the order of 40% more @1250 rpm.

That should be a considerable disadvantage for gasoline on long steep hill climbs - especially if I equip it with 35” tyres as planned…
Also, on long hill descents (electronics aside, I don’t count on them to do my work!) - engine braking with gasoline will be much weaker…

It’s common knowledge of course. But what I’d like to hear is the actual experience?

Thanks for comments!

 

[Logsplitter]

Hello!

I’m about to get my Grenadier, but I’m not set on that eternal diesel vs gasoline debate…
I’m leaning towards gasoline.

I’m not super concerned about gas mileage and I’d like to have a bit more highway juice for overtaking. I won’t be doing much towing, not offroad anyway.
Also, it can get really cold in the winter mornings from where I come from, like -25*C (-13*F), and even -35*C (-31*F) isn’t unheard of… Also, no AdBlue, no DPF, easier/cheaper maintenance…

That much for gasoline pros.

I’m only concerned with gasoline offroad performance. There’s this section that I’ll be passing through many times in many conditions on my way to the cabin in the mountains…

It’s approximately a mile long tricky stretch of mostly dirt “road” covered with a layer of leaves and mud - that turns to very slick stuff every time that it rains - every third day ;-)!
It has an average continuous grade of 16-18% that increases to 22-25% at sections.

With any amount of snow it becomes almost impassable of course, so I’m not even considering that, just the summer period.
In your experience - would gasoline be able to cope with it with ease - fully loaded car, but without a trailer?

I’m sure that diesel would. 550Nm @1250 rpm and 56,7:1 final gearing!

But gasoline has 450Nm @1750 rpm and 53,8:1 final gearing.

This means diesel has 29% more pulling power @1750 rpm and probably in the order of 40% more @1250 rpm.

That should be a considerable disadvantage for gasoline on long steep hill climbs - especially if I equip it with 35” tyres as planned…
Also, on long hill descents (electronics aside, I don’t count on them to do my work!) - engine braking with gasoline will be much weaker…

It’s common knowledge of course. But what I’d like to hear is the actual experience?

Thanks for comments!

I have the petrol model and I’ve found it has more than enough power on and off road.
I’ve recently finished a six month tour of Southern Africa, fully loaded and lots of offroad inc. up and down some very steep inclines. For my use case the petrol model does everything I need and matched with that gearbox is a lovely drive on or offroad.

 

[bemax]

You can always double the „pulling power“ by choosing low range. It doesn’t sound like you speed up the street with more than 80 km/h. Or do you?

 

[DaveB]

Hello!

I’m about to get my Grenadier, but I’m not set on that eternal diesel vs gasoline debate…
I’m leaning towards gasoline.

I’m not super concerned about gas mileage and I’d like to have a bit more highway juice for overtaking. I won’t be doing much towing, not offroad anyway.
Also, it can get really cold in the winter mornings from where I come from, like -25*C (-13*F), and even -35*C (-31*F) isn’t unheard of… Also, no AdBlue, no DPF, easier/cheaper maintenance…

That much for gasoline pros.

I’m only concerned with gasoline offroad performance. There’s this section that I’ll be passing through many times in many conditions on my way to the cabin in the mountains…

It’s approximately a mile long tricky stretch of mostly dirt “road” covered with a layer of leaves and mud - that turns to very slick stuff every time that it rains - every third day ;-)!
It has an average continuous grade of 16-18% that increases to 22-25% at sections.

With any amount of snow it becomes almost impassable of course, so I’m not even considering that, just the summer period.
In your experience - would gasoline be able to cope with it with ease - fully loaded car, but without a trailer?

I’m sure that diesel would. 550Nm @1250 rpm and 56,7:1 final gearing!

But gasoline has 450Nm @1750 rpm and 53,8:1 final gearing.

This means diesel has 29% more pulling power @1750 rpm and probably in the order of 40% more @1250 rpm.

That should be a considerable disadvantage for gasoline on long steep hill climbs - especially if I equip it with 35” tyres as planned…
Also, on long hill descents (electronics aside, I don’t count on them to do my work!) - engine braking with gasoline will be much weaker…

It’s common knowledge of course. But what I’d like to hear is the actual experience?

Thanks for comments!

I have the diesel and it is easy and relaxed to drive.
Plenty of low end torque and very smooth acceleration.
Low RPM on the motorway is also good.
It also has huge potential for tuning for significantly more torque and power somewhere down the track.

 

[CountyV8]

I have the petrol model and I’ve found it has more than enough power on and off road.
I’ve recently finished a six month tour of Southern Africa, fully loaded and lots of offroad inc. up and down some very steep inclines. For my use case the petrol model does everything I need and matched with that gearbox is a lovely drive on or offroad.

Agree with the above never thought the B58 was underpowered in any way HP or torque and it has a slightly lower crawl ratio. Having driven both for extended periods multiple thousands of miles I prefer the petrol that may babe different if I was doing a LOT of towing both great engines/gearbox combinations .

 

[Tinerfeño]

Some thoughs:

• If you drive mostly short distances without regular highway driving the modern diesel can't burn carbon residues from DPF.
• In general diesel is far more complicated on emission systems (EGR, AdBlue, DPF). This is more important if you intend to keep the car for many years/kilometers.
• In off-road conditions the torque or even more power is pretty irrelevant, traction is usually limiting factor.
• Engine braking is less on petrol but luckily (hopefully?) ZF automatic transmission locks turbine on override conditions.

I love diesel engines on- and off-road (mainly older mechanical ones) but seeing how bad moden diesels are (depending on driving profile, of course) my choice will be petrol.

 

[Shaky]

I went with petrol and still don’t regret it.

I do not do massive amounts of miles, so mpg doesn’t really concern me. Petrol is cheaper and the engine is less sensitive to short journeys without the need for a blast down the motorway to clear the DPF and that brings me on to the EGR valves etc.

Arguably diesels are better for some things but I will keep my petrol thanks.

 

[Zimm]

Its an 8 speed auto with a tq converter, which translates roughly into 50% more crawl than a similar manual. 331ft/lbs is more than enough before gear reduction. In other words, You get the diesel for the efficiency not the tq. You're not going anywhere in one the other cant go... until you run out of gas that is.

 

[pmatusov]

Its an 8 speed auto with a tq converter, which translates roughly into 50% more crawl than a similar manual. 331ft/lbs is more than enough before gear reduction. In other words, You get the diesel for the efficiency not the tq. You're not going anywhere in one the other cant go... until you run out of gas that is.

Ah the theorist Zimm!
You could have had yours by now, you know

To answer the question: there's plenty of power and torque for sticky situations, including driving hub-deep in heavy wet snow and rock crawling. Personally, I like near-instantaneous response of a petrol engine to throttle input, compared to a diesel, but I am not familiar with B57.
The B58 also has zero problems starting and running at -20C.

 

[Zimm]

Ah the theorist Zimm!
You could have had yours by now, you know

To answer the question: there's plenty of power and torque for sticky situations, including driving hub-deep in heavy wet snow and rock crawling. Personally, I like near-instantaneous response of a petrol engine to throttle input, compared to a diesel, but I am not familiar with B57.
The B58 also has zero problems starting and running at -20C.

Lol. At 5 hrs from the dealer, I'll continue to wait while the "Founders Club" keeps up its discovery. I do keep checking hoping to hear some good news. I did see my VIN being advertised.