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Developing a history (a very long post) PART 1

Krabby

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This post has been in my head for a while but it path is a bit curvy - hopefully you'll be able to follow my thoughts and by the end of the post it will make sense. Likewise, it’s going to be extremely long but I truly hope people actually read until its conclusion. My plan is to break it into manageable paragraphs so it’s easier to consume. It may even spawn multiple posts.

I’ve actually considered a podcast version of what I have written, but I think more people might consume it here. Besides, even folks who have been listening to the PC - THANK YOU by the way - can only stand so much of me. Moreover, a written post allows for comments and conversation thereafter.

Lastly, I have tried to include links to images of the vehicles I speak of. Hopefully I did not forget any.
——

I like “old” things - I have for as long as I can remember, even as a kid. I’ve always been drawn to things from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Cars, tools, gadgets, brands, advertising and design, logos, typography - I love it all.

(The 70s though - ugh, not so much. Even though I was born in ’76, I’m a child of the 80s, and when I think of the 70s I think of horrible clothing, terrible colors, and questionable hair styles. And fondu. Gross.)

Anyway, like I said, I’ve always been drawn to “old” stuff, especially as it relates to the auto industry and its connected ancillaries. This interest is complex though, because now that our society produces many “retro” things, my affinities continue to develop - I like “new” too.

This duality is, as I said, a bit complicated, but it’s certainly what drew me to the Grenadier. I have posted before that I am a Land Rover tragic whose love began in college simply because of a BF Goodrich poster that had an all-yellow D90 station wagon on it. I thought it was one of the coolest looking vehicles I’d ever seen and if I’m honest, I still do.

That said, how could I not be drawn to the INEOS GRENADIER - in many of our minds, it’s the 2023 Defender that JLR should have made. It’s something that I desired for a long time and, with some luck, my wife actually recalled me expressing just that - give me a “new” Defender that looks proper but has modern safety and running gear, contemporary reliability, no rust, etc. Buying a Grenadier would have been an arduous sell had that conversation had not taken place.

When it comes to “retro” vehicles, companies cashing in on their heritage is nothing new. I doubt there is a definitive moment when this trend began, but I think back to the 1994 MUSTANG where Ford was seriously trying to incorporate design cues from the original '65 MUSTANG. More on Ford later.

It seemed over the next however many years that everyone was jumping on the retro bandwagon in both name and design. There was the "new" MINI and the "new' FIAT 500 - two little cars whose existence was kicked off by the "new" BEETLE. Chevy brought back the CAMARO, Dodge revived the CHALLENGER, Nissan introduced a new NEW "Z" CAR, and everything old was new again. That trend continues - there will soon be a new VW BUS, the rebirth of the INTERNATIONAL SCOUT, and the reintroduction of a LAND CRUISER that relies heavily on its past.

Over this same time, and even going back farther, there are iconic vehicles that can’t be considered retro though in the sense that they’ve changed without changing. I speak of models like the PORSCHE 911, the JEEP WRANGLER (nee CJ) , and the G-WAGON. These vehicles - in their latest iterations - would be easily recognizable if displayed at the time of their origins. However, over that time frame - albeit Jeep’s 80+ years or the G-Wagon’s 40-something - each managed to be updated, modernized, and remain relevant throughout their journeys. These vehicles almost transcend time itself and have gracefully evolved over time while remaining true to their roots. No, it wasn’t all pretty - I’m talking to you Mr. Square-headlight WRANGLER and you, Ms. SLANT-NOSE 911 - but there was never any doubt about their respective family trees.

Leaving off the proper Defender from this list was by design. Not unlike the Jeep, the look of the Defender was still quite close to its forefathers and would be easily recognizable puttering around a 1950s Solihull. Honestly, there were only a few major exterior changes from the alpha Land Rover - HUE166 - to its omega homage - H166HUE - right down to the surplus shade of green.

Land Rover Series/Defender changes over its nearly 70-year life can be summed up quite succinctly - the front lights moved out from behind the grill, the lights later moved to the wings, and finally, the lights and grill/front facia became flush LAND ROVER FACES. Certainly it was more complex than that, but from the outside it could be argued that once the Series II was born not much else changed. The Defender fell short of the others, however, in failing to truly evolve under the surface from 1948 until 2016. Somehow Jeep, Mercedes (Magna), and Porsche are still pulling it off.
 
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Krabby

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PART 2

Back to Ford - who has done a pretty good job cashing in its heritage while producing beautiful vehicles. Granted the “new,” ahem, THUNDERBIRD was a bit of an S-Type-based abomination - but that was all forgotten once the first “new” GT-40 (2003/2004) broke cover. Wow, what a fantastic vehicle. Simply stunning.

Naturally though, for our collective context, the NEW BRONCO is the most relevant retro vehicle. Ford certainly rested heavily on its name and incorporated plenty of design cues from the FIRST GENERATION trucks (1965-1977) into the current ones. I’m sure opinions here vary, but to me, some of the trim levels look really nice and tastefully project the past on the present. I believe that can be said of the current WRANGLER as well.

[Quick sidebar - I mention the Bronco and Jeep in this post NOT because they compete with the Grenadier [two very different breeds of the same species - thoughts HERE post 66) but for the “retro” nature of their designs]

That brings us back to Land Rover - a company whose very existence was built upon the bones of a WWII WILLYS MB surplus Jeep. I said earlier that I’m a bit of a Roverphile and I like to think that I know its history quite well; yet it has heritage I continue to discover. Take, for example, the JUE477 story of the first production Land Rover vehicle that was acquired, restored, and driven across parts of Mongolia by none other than Sir Jim Radcliffe himself.

Ineos Automotive is a young company with no heritage of its own - there is no automotive lineage - although there will be some day. I lament that there actually isn’t history already in place because I’m so fond of learning about the past. However, it’s quite exciting because each of us in the Global Grenadier community are helping to write that very story.

Despite being all but seven-years-old, the foundation for Grenadier lore had been set. Its tale quickly became legendary and one can even have a pint or the Wellington at its namesake. (@Stu_Barnes and I discuss Grenadier genesis on EPISODE 1 of the podcast)

Interestingly though, the very story of the Grenadier is entwined with Land Rover lore and I sometimes think that the Grenadier has a bit of an identity crisis. It is born of a young company in Ineos Automotive and has British, Austrian, German, Italian, and French blood running through its veins. It displays this unique DNA in an oddly familiar skin that encases an amalgam of global components with heritages all their own. It is a new vehicle with a brief yet complicated story and one whose history will be written by those who drive it.
 
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AngusMacG

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I will agree with you that the 70's are not my favorite decade for most things...My birth being the exception of course...when it comes to vehicles I have driven many types and each had their application and usefulness but I find that the Grenadier may fill that, previously unknown for me, need of true utility. I think being younger I was more into sports cars like the 280Z, Corvette, Mustang, Lotus, Trans Am, Ferrari, etc...then as I got older I became a bit more practical and went with sedans or SUVs. Now that I approach my crochety "get off my lawn" phase of life I realize I need more utility than the flashiness of a sports car or the practicality of a sedan or SUV.
 

terdrocket

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I was born in 74 and found that now that I'm older, I really like the unloved 70's cars. So much so that I now have a 79 Coupe Deville (all original 58k miles), and 2 73 Oldsmobile Delta 88's (One original and one pimped out).
The Royale with Cheese is not for everyone.
2023-09-22 09.14.07.jpg
 
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Good stuff Krabby. I think most of us who immediately fell in love with the Grenadier - as soon as we heard the vision for the vehicle - have similar ideas. During the decade before the Grenadier was announced, I frequently found myself wishing that I could buy a brand new classic 4x4. Perhaps the vehicle I most regret selling, was my 1978 CJ-7. That little truck had heart and soul. And while it had its problems, I could fix them all with a basic tool set. I think a lot of folk on this forum had (or still have) a similar experience - be it with a Defender, a Landcruiser, or something similar.
 

Jeremy996

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I was born in the '60s and don't quite the same horror for the '70s. I don't have the same feeling of a common thread for LR design from the S1 to the 2016 Defender, for me it's more the S2 to the Defender, with the shoulder line and the tumblehome on the bodyside, (take a bow, David Bache). (A body feature of the Grenadier; the designer said it was a stroke of genius, giving extra volume where needed).

As for old things, I am a fan of Art Deco, so I am very fond of my Dualit toaster and my Morgan 4/4, both of which are capable of long term repair. The Grenadier will hopefully be added to the list of stuff I will keep for decades.
Dualit Toaster - 1.jpegMog Melton Car Show - 1.jpeg
 

Jeremy996

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Not a fan of The 70’s??

Seriously- the best music decade ever.
The usual mix of glorious stuff and truly dire noises too. Music in any decade has a massive spectrum and stuff I found irratating in my youth I have warmed to as I have aged, take Justin Haywood - I loathed it at the time

View: https://youtu.be/77rinB5pYqA


I'd have much rather listened to Blondie
 

carlg007

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I was born in the '60s and don't quite the same horror for the '70s. I don't have the same feeling of a common thread for LR design from the S1 to the 2016 Defender, for me it's more the S2 to the Defender, with the shoulder line and the tumblehome on the bodyside, (take a bow, David Bache). (A body feature of the Grenadier; the designer said it was a stroke of genius, giving extra volume where needed).

As for old things, I am a fan of Art Deco, so I am very fond of my Dualit toaster and my Morgan 4/4, both of which are capable of long term repair. The Grenadier will hopefully be added to the list of stuff I will keep for decades.
View attachment 7836295View attachment 7836296
I purchased a 4 slice Dualit toaster just because you can buy replacement parts for it! With a side benefit I think it is beautiful and it works great!
 
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Born in the Fifties as the Police song goes. Have owned a 1966 Jaguar 3.8 S which I drove in high school and college, and 1976 Jeep CJ-5 which I planned to drive to Key West and become a bar tender (instead stopped in Virginia for law school to became a lawyer, too bad), my 1994 Sportster is simplicity itself, I have a small collection of vintage straight razors and vintage Omega watches, so I, like a lot of us here, was immediately drawn to the Grenadier as a modern vintage truck. I get wobbly sometimes reading about all the flaws and think of cancelling, but I think instead I will see it through because it looks like it will make me smile.
 

rovie

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Born in the Fifties as the Police song goes. Have owned a 1966 Jaguar 3.8 S which I drove in high school and college, and 1976 Jeep CJ-5 which I planned to drive to Key West and become a bar tender (instead stopped in Virginia for law school to became a lawyer, too bad), my 1994 Sportster is simplicity itself, I have a small collection of vintage straight razors and vintage Omega watches, so I, like a lot of us here, was immediately drawn to the Grenadier as a modern vintage truck. I get wobbly sometimes reading about all the flaws and think of cancelling, but I think instead I will see it through because it looks like it will make me smile.
Just do it. And overlook the unpleasant things.
That's how I do it.
It's better off-road than the Defender and the Discovery. I make good progress on my wet meadows and muddy paths with the locks.
All in all, it's simply a joy to drive.
 

[ Adam ]

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Born in the Fifties as the Police song goes. Have owned a 1966 Jaguar 3.8 S which I drove in high school and college, and 1976 Jeep CJ-5 which I planned to drive to Key West and become a bar tender (instead stopped in Virginia for law school to became a lawyer, too bad), my 1994 Sportster is simplicity itself, I have a small collection of vintage straight razors and vintage Omega watches, so I, like a lot of us here, was immediately drawn to the Grenadier as a modern vintage truck. I get wobbly sometimes reading about all the flaws and think of cancelling, but I think instead I will see it through because it looks like it will make me smile.

The only thing that genuinely concerns me is water ingress. All of this other stuff just seems like growing pains and fixable.
 

Jeremy996

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The only thing that genuinely concerns me is water ingress. All of this other stuff just seems like growing pains and fixable.
I had the water in the drivers footwell and the bootwash from the door opening, both are cured after some warranty work; unlike the old Defender, the Grenadier is not a sieve with an engine!
 

acwiltshire

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I had the water in the drivers footwell and the bootwash from the door opening, both are cured after some warranty work; unlike the old Defender, the Grenadier is not a sieve with an engine!
Mine has has footwell water since day 1 in May - found by the tracker installer. ONLY this week have IA given me a loan Grenadier while they see what a bodyshop can do to fix the roof. I have informed them I will reject the original and expect a new build - watch this space folks. Love the drive but dismayed . Us early adopters should be treated with utmost respect as we real life test their ( our ) baby
 

Magical Mystery Tours

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We were born in the 60s and naturally have memories of the 70s - that was the decade of our school days and also the decade in which our personalities were formed. Many things that are viewed nostalgically today were simply part of everyday life back then. Sometimes we smile when we watch TV series today that were made back then. Many things no longer exist, perhaps they have simply been overtaken by the possibilities of technology.

But the 70s were also a decade in which architects, designers and artists wanted to overtake each other. Not only with each other, but also with themselves. This created a speed that caused qualities to fade and inevitably made superficiality the standard. An architect we know once told us (when he was already over 80) that they hardly asked about meaning and functionality back then. Ultimately, it was no longer about the building as such, but only about whether it had the potential to make the creator famous. And today, we need to renovate these buildings or demolish them because they are completely dilapidated.

It was (and is) no different with cars - in some cases even worse. Suddenly, for example, an entire product line was put to the test because sales figures were declining. And considerations along the lines of "what is good" and "what can we do better" were completely thrown out the window in favor of a very questionable motto. "What can be advertised well?" and "What can be sold well (and cheaply)?" With a high margin, of course.

Today, in most cases, the "longing" for these things, which still had quality, is quickly taken up by advertising. Something is suggested to the eye that is de facto not there. There are many examples, probably the closest in this round, the ND. And then the "makers" today are not even afraid to reactivate the "ghosts" of the past in order to distract from the crap they are spouting. No, not everything was better in the past, but not everything has improved today either.

It is simply ridiculous for today's managers to refer to pioneers who pursued completely different plans. And we think that most of today's managers would have failed miserably in the role of the pioneers of that time.

A Swahili proverb says: "Usiache mbachao kwa msala upitao!". Translated, this means: "Do not abandon what is your own because of transitory or temporary matters" or "One should not abandon what is tried and tested because of temporary temptations or matters."
 
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Coullabus

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Born in the Fifties as the Police song goes. Have owned a 1966 Jaguar 3.8 S which I drove in high school and college, and 1976 Jeep CJ-5 which I planned to drive to Key West and become a bar tender (instead stopped in Virginia for law school to became a lawyer, too bad), my 1994 Sportster is simplicity itself, I have a small collection of vintage straight razors and vintage Omega watches, so I, like a lot of us here, was immediately drawn to the Grenadier as a modern vintage truck. I get wobbly sometimes reading about all the flaws and think of cancelling, but I think instead I will see it through because it looks like it will make me smile.
See it through!
 
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