B57 v B58 Maintenance costs.

[Disco Dave]

The maintenance complexity of the B57 (re: emissions control) v the B58, and associated costs, is a topic I cannot find too much info about.
Do I go for the more “simple” B58, or the extended mileage and range afforded by the B57?
Will the many short city driven trips I do in my daily driver, notorious for clogging a modern diesel, override the fuel advantages?
Right now, I’m leaning towards the petrol version. As I fear that diesel maintenance, and outback reliability, will cost me more. Will just have to carry a couple of jerry cans when I go bush.

 

[stickshifter]

The diesel mechanics I know say that if you regularly need to make short trips, a modern diesel is not a great choice.

 

[littlejump]

A big concern is about the need of adblue. Here in the UK and Europe, even Morocco, I believe there shouldn't be any issue of getting it easily. If I go further to other countries overlanding, so much worries about it

 

[grenadierboy]

Dave - I am going through the same analysis (and also impacting my choice of tyre too). I live fairly inner city (in Melbourne) & will have 3 buckets of travel:

1. Daily driver: 500 trips (there & back) of 5-10km - really bad for a diesel

2. Weekend getaway: 40 trips(there & back) of 95km - OK for diesel

3. Camping/hiking: 10 trips(there & back) of 200km - great for diesel

Total expected annual km's only 9,000 to 10,000.

I spoke to my mechanic about this issue a couple of years ago when I was looking at Porsche Macan's (for buckets 1 & 2) and he strongly suggested to get the petrol not the diesel variant for reasons of cost, maintenance, DPF clogging, etc.

As my planned off-roading is light to medium only and only sometimes towing a small camping trailer. Moreover, I can't see myself doing hard core off road driving into impossible places.

I am minded to buy petrol, especially as the engine has been tuned for extra torque.

But I what if, a few years down the track I want to do outback touring?
What about resale of a petrol engined Grenadier in diesel obsessed Australia?

 

[Shaky]

I am leaning toward the Petrol. In the UK there is now a significant price difference between the two with diesel being on average 15-17p per litre more expensive. Add to that my personal opinion is that the government will tolerate petrols being on the road a lot longer than they will diesel vehicles I am going for petrol. I read many years ago that you need to do 20k miles a year before a diesel is worth having, not sure on that but I definitely won’t be doing anywhere near that mileage. Probably 5k-8k miles on average. The only thing that is worrying me is the miles per gallon quoted for the petrol is on the low side IMO.

 

[Paachi]

Being in the US we dont have a choice. It has to be petrol for us. That being said even if I had the option for a diesel I might still choose petrol. 
Modern diesels are notoriously complex and low tolerance for bad fuel. I own an older diesel car (old IDI Merc straight 6, no EGR, no DPF) and two areas where diesel trump’s petrol IMHO are tank range and lower fuel consumption in off-road low speed (mostly little above idle) high torque at low revs scenarios. Everywhere else I think petrol is better. For overlanding I think more so because I’d argue that you will get petrol in more places than diesel. To quote Scott Brady from Overland Journal “ most remote places two wheels are the go to forms of transportation “ 

The Grenadiers petrol engine is tuned to accept low octane gas. Which is a huge plus in my book. The only question mark in my mind is how reliable and field serviceable is the B58? One of my touring buddies bought up a good point as we were discussing the Grenadier over camp fire last weekend. Will Ineos give access to the ECUs for field management and debugging?

 

[MarksGrenadier]

In the US we only have the Gas option, however I have a Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel as my daily driver and the maintenance costs on a large diesel are much higher.  My company has a fleet account with over 100 pickups (mostly diesel) and as such I change the oil and fuel filters every 5,000 Miles.  Cost is around $ 275.00 vs under $ 1000 for a gas pickup.  Annual Smog is around $125 vs $ 21 for a gas car.  We have to put DEF fluid in every 2000 to 3000 miles so that is a cost to deal with. In bulk we pay around $ 3.00 / Gal but much more if you have to buy it retail.

I have also has a number of issues with Regeneration codes being thrown and a number of our work trucks have has expensive ($5000) filter and other emissions issues that needed repair.  Power is also impacted by all the emissions scrubbers and filters they have added.  Older trucks have far more power and far less maintenance costs.

Currently Diesel is running at least $ 0.50 per Gallon more although at times the costs are the same.

A diesel may last longer and have better fuel consumption but from an annual maintenance perspective the Gas/petrol option is quite a bit cheaper in my experience.

 

[stickshifter]

[QUOTE username=mark Gordine  MarksGrenadier userid=8535393 postid=1332519330]In the US we only have the Gas option, however I have a Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel as my daily driver and the maintenance costs on a large diesel are much higher.  My company has a fleet account with over 100 pickups (mostly diesel) and as such I change the oil and fuel filters every 5,000 Miles.  Cost is around $ 275.00 vs under $ 1000 for a gas pickup.  Annual Smog is around $125 vs $ 21 for a gas car.  We have to put DEF fluid in every 2000 to 3000 miles so that is a cost to deal with. In bulk we pay around $ 3.00 / Gal but much more if you have to buy it retail.

I have also has a number of issues with Regeneration codes being thrown and a number of our work trucks have has expensive ($5000) filter and other emissions issues that needed repair.  Power is also impacted by all the emissions scrubbers and filters they have added.  Older trucks have far more power and far less maintenance costs.

Currently Diesel is running at least $ 0.50 per Gallon more although at times the costs are the same.

A diesel may last longer and have better fuel consumption but from an annual maintenance perspective the Gas/petrol option is quite a bit cheaper in my experience.[/QUOTE]
I know a guy who also runs a fleet and says the exact same. It’s part of the reason Ford came out with the 7.3 gas engine. Unless you are towing heavy and often, modern diesels don’t make sense. 

 

[DaveB]

They did say that the system will advise regularly on DPF condition and give you notice when you need to take it for a longer/hotter run.
I read you get around 1,200 kms /litre out of the adblue so a 17 litre tank is good for 20,000kms. 
It also has a fuel gauge for the adblue. 

 

[grenadierboy]

Re: DFP - that would be fantastic. I dont think I get that on my current bmw X3 diesel

 

[DaveB]

I hired a Defender back in 2019 and it ran out of adblue 
It took 2 hours for the rental company to get someone to me and they put 1.5 litres in the tank and all was good. 
No adblue fuel gauge that I could find 
I think I might keep a 1 litre bottle in the spare wheel container 

 

[Davman]

Have we confirmed if the Aus version is getting ADBLUE?   
Plenty of cars get sent to OZ without Adblue due to our lower emission control requirements.
VW Amarok V6 Highline for example - early versions of the V6 had ADBLUE as they were the German made cars, but when they started making them in Argentina - suddenly there was no ADBLUE requirements for these cars.

I think we will find in a few areas, the UK/EU cars will be different to the OZ cars, and inturn the US cars.

 

[DenisM]

Latest I saw was that the Aus.-bound  vehicles will require ad Blue...?

 

[DaveB]

Of course that is common on all new diesels

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=DenisM userid=8875352 postid=1332748591]Latest I saw was that the Aus.-bound  vehicles will require ad Blue...?[/QUOTE]
I hired a Landover diesel and it ran out of adblue and I was stuck on the side of the road for 2 hours.
I am going to keep a couple of litres in the spare wheel compartment for emergencies
with a 17 litre tank of adblue you should get about 10-15,000 kms from a tank  

 

[grenadierboy]

I am pretty sure that on board engine monitoring will be able to advise levels of Adblue , especially when levels are getting low.

 

[ECrider]

[QUOTE username=DaveB userid=8923052 postid=1332748640]
I hired a Landover diesel and it ran out of adblue and I was stuck on the side of the road for 2 hours.
I am going to keep a couple of litres in the spare wheel compartment for emergencies
with a 17 litre tank of adblue you should get about 10-15,000 kms from a tank  [/QUOTE]

yep, will stash away some in the vehicle somewhere just incase. along with couple ltrs oil, multimeter, emergency hipflask, spare dog whistle, list goes on and on. hope its got some decent cubby holes. 2nd row of seats seems to be pretty full with aux batt etc

 

[Disco Dave]

[QUOTE username=Mark Evans  grenadierboy userid=8954799 postid=1332509901]Dave - I am going through the same analysis (and also impacting my choice of tyre too). I live fairly inner city (in Melbourne) & will have 3 buckets of travel:

1. Daily driver: 500 trips (there & back) of 5-10km - really bad for a diesel

2. Weekend getaway: 40 trips(there & back) of 95km - OK for diesel

3. Camping/hiking: 10 trips(there & back) of 200km - great for diesel

Total expected annual km's only 9,000 to 10,000.

I spoke to my mechanic about this issue a couple of years ago when I was looking at Porsche Macan's (for buckets 1 & 2) and he strongly suggested to get the petrol not the diesel variant for reasons of cost, maintenance, DPF clogging, etc.

As my planned off-roading is light to medium only and only sometimes towing a small camping trailer. Moreover, I can't see myself doing hard core off road driving into impossible places.

I am minded to buy petrol, especially as the engine has been tuned for extra torque.

But I what if, a few years down the track I want to do outback touring?
What about resale of a petrol engined Grenadier in diesel obsessed Australia?


That is about the same as my envisaged usage. That is why I am going petrol. Just don’t need the DPF light to come on when my next highway trip is 2 weeks away. Nor do I need an intake clogging EGR (made worse by short trips) to add to my maintenance bill. That is not to say that the direct injection B58 won’t need intake manifold cleaning, it will, just no where near as often.

Most diesel lovers are in love with the diesel pre EGR, DPF, and Adblue. Many have been able to blank off the EGR, however I think this will be very difficult with the B57. So they are in love with an engine that is no longer produced mainstream, and certainly not in the Grenadier.

If I where consistently doing long trips, and especially if towing, I would definitely go the diesel.



[/QUOTE]

 

[DaveB]

Strange.
I have been driving a Diesel for the last 5 years largely short trips but with long trips maybe once every 2 months. 
No problems at all except I do drive it hard and fast everywhere. 
I have had a variety of petrol & diesel vehicles over the last 40+ years probably 70 /30 split Petrol/diesel
Never had a problem with diesel or petrol.
It isn't a matter of if petrol is better than diesel or not. Just go with what you want.
It isn't a competition or a who's the most manly man test. 

 

[DenisM]

I thought long and hard about this as well and was sorely tempted to the B58 engine. However, having spent the past 7 yrs with a Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 CRDI turbo diesel...a 2015 DM2 (no DPF)  model (70K+ km) and currently a 2019 TM "Elite" with 16k km (with DPF but no "Ad Blue") I've decided to go with the B57. I'm in a different situation. WELL past normal retirement age? -we use a Subaru petrol for running around Brisbane and normally only use the Santa Fe for longer trips  (100km return min).. Planning on a couple of long trips in the IG next year to the Channel country, points west and Flinders Ranges --all going well!