Bingo fuel

pmatusov · Jul 26, 2024

More entertainment from my Grenadier:
Last night when I was taking off from work, it showed remaining range of 148 miles.
This morning, when I arrived back to work, it showed remaining range of 149 miles.
My wife's LR4 remaining range estimate is and always has been very accurate - on a NA engine, but with variable cam lift and duration.
I appreciate the difficulty of estimating range on a variable-displacement engine, but... Come on, people.

Trialmaster · Jul 26, 2024

Driving style change?

But seriously, does anyone actually look at the range? I look at fuel quantity? If I drive my M5 some days its 14mpg others 23mpg, depends on how you drive which effects range.

Can we have constructive posts instead of these constant moans, about nothing?

pmatusov · Jul 26, 2024

Trialmaster said:
Driving style change?

But seriously, does anyone actually look at the range? I look at fuel quantity? If I drive my M5 some days its 14mpg others 23mpg, depends on how you drive which effects range.

Can we have constructive posts instead of these constant moans, about nothing?

Driving style change? Exact same. Since it's a round-trip, even the significant elevation change doesn't matter - more importantly, the range estimate showed more miles remaining after a 25-minute trip uphill.

Can I trust fuel quantity? Neither. After 11270 miles, I know there's less than half a tank when the gas gauge shows ~5/8 of a tank left.
For whatever it's worth, the Land Rovers of old were similar - all of 7 I owned or own currently; 5/8 of a tank means half a gallon under one-half. But they didn't offer range estimates. The LR4 does - and incredibly accurately; it may be one of its few virtues, but that's that.

I understand that in the UK you're rarely 10 miles from a gas station, but it is very different in the U.S. I frequently drive to places that are more than a hundred miles away from the nearest services - meaning this is something that is important to me (and to hundreds of Grenadier owners in the U.S. Southwest).
It is far more important in lands down under - but I am sure these guys rarely leave home without one or two full jerry cans along.

I am probably one of the most-enthusiastic Grenadier owners, happily driving #7 vehicle delivered to the U.S. It doesn't mean posting something odd means "constant moans." Butt off.

Tom109 · Jul 26, 2024

In 6-months I’ve had one fuel bingo day. Luckily I was due to fill up, but it still didn’t register fuel until the next morning start. No issues since, except a very premature low fuel warning.

pmatusov · Jul 29, 2024

Trialmaster said:
But seriously, does anyone actually look at the range? I look at fuel quantity?

Fresh observation: when the fuel gauge was exactly at half-tank (flat ground, consistent for several minutes), it took 16.2 gallons to fill it up.

Zimm · Jul 29, 2024

pmatusov said:
Fresh observation: when the fuel gauge was exactly at half-tank (flat ground, consistent for several minutes), it took 16.2 gallons to fill it up.

WTF? you mean they shrunk the tanks from 35? Goddamit.

I have to check mine now. I too was getting the impression it was being optimistic on the first half.

pmatusov · Jul 29, 2024

Yeah, even my 95 Classic with 387kmi is closer - 14 gallons on "indicated" ~12 gallons left.
But it looks like the Costco's pump overfilled the tank by a bit - judging by CEL and fuel level sensor-related code. Can't wait that to be fixed with the firmware update.

Ovrland Bill · Jul 30, 2024

pmatusov said:
Fresh observation: when the fuel gauge was exactly at half-tank (flat ground, consistent for several minutes), it took 16.2 gallons to fill it up.

My fuel gauge also reads high (by up to 1/8 tank), especially at the higher total fuel levels.

pmatusov · Aug 1, 2024

Now it outdid itself. 180mi remaining before heading home last night, 200mi remaining before going to work in the morning, 186mi - upon arrival to work.
At least, the last two numbers are somewhat representative of 16 miles of distance.
I think there are several factors -
- single fuel level sensor in a long tank (LR4 has two in a similar arrangement), more susceptible to the vehicle pitch angle;
- either poor calibration of fuel lever sensor, or incorrect interpretation of its signal (I think the latter is more likely, given the frequent CEL upon the slightest overfill);
- and ridiculously poor algorithm for the range estimate.
I have the fuel gauge close to 3/4 tank mark, will top it off to get another meaningful data point.

Zimm · Aug 1, 2024

pmatusov said:
- and ridiculously poor algorithm for the range estimate.

I'm not saying the situation isn't possible, But, this is the only car I've EVER seen that has the same city and highway fuel estimates. EVER. the losses due to poor aerodynamics and start/stop would need to be almost exactly the same. Ya think maybe they just glossed over that part to get'er done?

pmatusov · Aug 1, 2024

Zimm said:
I'm not saying the situation isn't possible, But, this is the only car I've EVER seen that has the same city and highway fuel estimates. EVER. the losses due to poor aerodynamics and start/stop would need to be almost exactly the same. Ya think maybe they just glossed over that part to get'er done?

I think I can see that possible. The actual city mileage is worse, but not by much, than fast highway driving. The combo of turbo'ed engine with an 8-speed transmission tries hard to be as fuel-efficient in the city - but aerodynamics kicks in on the highway.

Zimm · Aug 1, 2024

pmatusov said:
I think I can see that possible. The actual city mileage is worse, but not by much, than fast highway driving. The combo of turbo'ed engine with an 8-speed transmission tries hard to be as fuel-efficient in the city - but aerodynamics kicks in on the highway.

Dynamics seen by older suvs that still eaked out 10-20% more on the highway. Turbos save mpg by staying out of them. A portly bastard around town and with a low first and no second gear start is gonna spool up all the time. A tall 8th and long stroke may save something on the highway. Even with the shape, I would have thought it would do better than a v8, and it does not. It's all possible but... weird.

pmatusov · Aug 1, 2024

Zimm said:
Even with the shape, I would have thought it would do better than a v8, and it does not. It's all possible but... weird.

FWIW, the Grenadier's gas mileage is exactly the same as LR4's with a 5.0, in the same conditions.
I guess we just have to learn to stay off the little pedal.

IGL · Aug 1, 2024

i always fuel up when fuel gauge is at half-tank ish, remaining range is no issue for me.
May be different when overlanding.

Stu_Barnes · Aug 1, 2024

This is the worst one I’ve had. But when it’s down to 0 bars it takes the tank capacity minus 1/2 gallon. At least it did.

Zimm · Aug 1, 2024

Stu_Barnes said:
View attachment 7865533

This is the worst one I’ve had. But when it’s down to 0 bars it takes the tank capacity minus 1/2 gallon. At least it did.

I've parked it with more, and the next day it read zero. I'll take a new car and run out of gas just so I get an idea what the unaccounted for fuel volume is, but, I'm afraid of causing a complete meltdown with this rig if I do that.

I've been good on the electronics so far, so no point in poking the bear. I'll just keep filling up to one click, and only one click.

Stu_Barnes · Aug 1, 2024

Zimm said:
I've parked it with more, and the next day it read zero. I'll take a new car and run out of gas just so I get an idea what the unaccounted for fuel volume is, but, I'm afraid of causing a complete meltdown with this rig if I do that. I've been good on the electronics so far, so no point in poking the bear. I'll just keep filling up to one click, and only one click.

That’s my mo as well.

Michael H. · Aug 1, 2024

In my attached Fuel Economy spreadsheet, the “RANGE REM. (km)” column shows the figure displayed when I filled up, and the “RANGE at 12.5” column is my estimate of the actual range remaining (assuming the advertised diesel consumption of 12.5L/100km).

Interesting to note that the displayed figure has become more accurate over time.

pmatusov · Aug 5, 2024

Last Saturday, the Grenadier screamed at me that I had to fuel up ASAP, with only 44 miles of range remaining. Sunday morning it was less negative, at 77 miles remaining, with yellow frame around the fuel gauge. A mile later, it went back to red, with range remaining at "---". The gauge itself sat around a hair under 1/4 tank.
The tank took 19.5 gallons - meaning there must have been about 4 gallons left.

AngusMacG · Aug 6, 2024

pmatusov said:
Last Saturday, the Grenadier screamed at me that I had to fuel up ASAP, with only 44 miles of range remaining. Sunday morning it was less negative, at 77 miles remaining, with yellow frame around the fuel gauge. A mile later, it went back to red, with range remaining at "---". The gauge itself sat around a hair under 1/4 tank.
The tank took 19.5 gallons - meaning there must have been about 4 gallons left.

I go by the trip meter. Remaining range is utterly useless. Gas gauge is fairly accurate until u get below 1/4 tank. I tend to fill up between 312-320 miles. I reset after every fill up

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