New here....Some questions and observations

evomind · Jun 6, 2023

Hello All,

I am a fan of the Grenadier!

My truck background started with an H3 and a lift some years ago.
Surprisingly capable.
Then I got into H1s.
I have owned 2 of them over the years.
Lifted, 40 inch tires, various other mods.
Had a few other trucks but much more mundane.

Since 2020 I have been looking at the new Defenders.
I am attracted to it for its mix of off-road and luxury.
I am very aware of the reliability problems most JLR products are plagued with.
So no way was I going to buy a first year model JLR product and figured I would see if they would take care of some of the niggles in 2021.
They didnt.
Same niggles.
Ok, I can wait. I am sure they will shore things up by 2022.
Same niggles, same story, and people keep buying them.
2023. Same thing. Wind noise, electronic gremlins to no end, etc.
I figure 2024 is enough time even for a seemingly lazy company like JLR to sort a premium vehicle.
I am not convinced.
I AM convinced JLR really could care less. Their audience keeps buying them so why should they change?
Again, once you drive off the lot they just dont care.

That said I think its a beautiful truck.
The best blend of off road and comfort that I can think of.

So, in the past few years I have looked at other trucks
Looked at Jeep Rubicons. Cool, capable, but a little too "cheaply" made as far as the interior goes.
I didnt think it drove all that bad.

I ordered a Bronco after it was announced and have delayed my order 2 model years because certain features were not available and what not.
I do have one that will probably arrive this fall. The wife wanted the white rood and I wanted the modular top so they finally decided to build it.
Its a heritage edition.
Not sure I will actually take delivery of it.

Bought my daughter a base Bronco for under 36k and its a great vehicle at that price.
I think the upper trims and spending 60k on a vehicle filled with so much cheap plastic and the wind noise makes you feel like youre blasting off in a space shuttle. (Same with the Jeep.)
I think the expensive trims the fit/finish/etc would tick me off.
Drove pretty nice, a little better than the Jeep.

Checked out the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk which I liked but I am sure the build quality or lack thereof will show in a couple of years and the vehicle will be depreciated to zero in about 5 years.
My biggest problem was, and maybe the excuse is Covid, but GC have always been discounted to hell but not lately and I just think a loaded Trailhawk is too much money for that vehicle.
I wasnt crazy about it anyway. I looked at it and it looked like 45k to my eyes.

My problem with the Defender is I want my next vehicle to last at least 10 years. I have little hope the I can keep a Defender on the road for 10 odd years without dumping A LOT of cash that I may not have at that point in my life.
Especially considering the cost of admission.
I can buy a good after market warranty if I want to drop another 7k.

Ok then.....I love the look and idea of the Grenadier. I am a car guy...I "get it."
I know its not the luxury off-roader the Defender is (Also not becoming the upscale soccer moms car either like the Defender.)
I know the Grenadier is more hard core and capable off road. We know that.
What I want to know is if the vehicle is comfortable for road trips?
My wife and I want something we cant drive all day to destinations and then off road once we get there.
Will we feel beat up after 6-8 hours on the highway like a Jeep?
I hear the seats are nice but there doesnt seem to be much as far as arm rests...
How is the interior material? I know it's a lot of plastic but how does it look and feel in person?
Im in Arizona. It's really hot sometimes. The Grenadier has a big cabin.
Will the A/C be able to keep up?

Again, not looking for an S Class but want something comfortable.

Some of my thoughts and observations....Keep in mind I have not seen one in person.
I think some of the fit and finish could be better for a vehicle costing over 80k USD optioned out.
I think its expensive.
I think the vehicle will last a long time.
I think maybe Ineos could use another 6-8 months refining time as I feel the first wave of owners are part of the R and D process.
IDK
Considering waiting another year. Maybe they will fix a few issues in the manufacturing process by year 2 like LR cant do in over 4.

Just thinking out loud so dont flame me too bad, but I would love this truck even more if they went with a Toyota, Chevy, or Ford drivetrain. Maybe even M/B, idk.
Longevity and cheaper to run/fix.

Please share your thoughts and reading through.
I thought it would help if you all had some back ground.

Thanks!

DaBull · Jun 6, 2023

evomind said:
Hello All,

I am a fan of the Grenadier!

My truck background started with an H3 and a lift some years ago.
Surprisingly capable.
Then I got into H1s.
I have owned 2 of them over the years.
Lifted, 40 inch tires, various other mods.
Had a few other trucks but much more mundane.

Since 2020 I have been looking at the new Defenders.
I am attracted to it for its mix of off-road and luxury.
I am very aware of the reliability problems most JLR products are plagued with.
So no way was I going to buy a first year model JLR product and figured I would see if they would take care of some of the niggles in 2021.
They didnt.
Same niggles.
Ok, I can wait. I am sure they will shore things up by 2022.
Same niggles, same story, and people keep buying them.
2023. Same thing. Wind noise, electronic gremlins to no end, etc.
I figure 2024 is enough time even for a seemingly lazy company like JLR to sort a premium vehicle.
I am not convinced.
I AM convinced JLR really could care less. Their audience keeps buying them so why should they change?
Again, once you drive off the lot they just dont care.

That said I think its a beautiful truck.
The best blend of off road and comfort that I can think of.

So, in the past few years I have looked at other trucks
Looked at Jeep Rubicons. Cool, capable, but a little too "cheaply" made as far as the interior goes.
I didnt think it drove all that bad.

I ordered a Bronco after it was announced and have delayed my order 2 model years because certain features were not available and what not.
I do have one that will probably arrive this fall. The wife wanted the white rood and I wanted the modular top so they finally decided to build it.
Its a heritage edition.
Not sure I will actually take delivery of it.

Bought my daughter a base Bronco for under 36k and its a great vehicle at that price.
I think the upper trims and spending 60k on a vehicle filled with so much cheap plastic and the wind noise makes you feel like youre blasting off in a space shuttle. (Same with the Jeep.)
I think the expensive trims the fit/finish/etc would tick me off.
Drove pretty nice, a little better than the Jeep.

Checked out the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk which I liked but I am sure the build quality or lack thereof will show in a couple of years and the vehicle will be depreciated to zero in about 5 years.
My biggest problem was, and maybe the excuse is Covid, but GC have always been discounted to hell but not lately and I just think a loaded Trailhawk is too much money for that vehicle.
I wasnt crazy about it anyway. I looked at it and it looked like 45k to my eyes.

My problem with the Defender is I want my next vehicle to last at least 10 years. I have little hope the I can keep a Defender on the road for 10 odd years without dumping A LOT of cash that I may not have at that point in my life.
Especially considering the cost of admission.
I can buy a good after market warranty if I want to drop another 7k.

Ok then.....I love the look and idea of the Grenadier. I am a car guy...I "get it."
I know its not the luxury off-roader the Defender is (Also not becoming the upscale soccer moms car either like the Defender.)
I know the Grenadier is more hard core and capable off road. We know that.
What I want to know is if the vehicle is comfortable for road trips?
My wife and I want something we cant drive all day to destinations and then off road once we get there.
Will we feel beat up after 6-8 hours on the highway like a Jeep?
I hear the seats are nice but there doesnt seem to be much as far as arm rests...
How is the interior material? I know it's a lot of plastic but how does it look and feel in person?
Im in Arizona. It's really hot sometimes. The Grenadier has a big cabin.
Will the A/C be able to keep up?

Again, not looking for an S Class but want something comfortable.

Some of my thoughts and observations....Keep in mind I have not seen one in person.
I think some of the fit and finish could be better for a vehicle costing over 80k USD optioned out.
I think its expensive.
I think the vehicle will last a long time.
I think maybe Ineos could use another 6-8 months refining time as I feel the first wave of owners are part of the R and D process.
IDK
Considering waiting another year. Maybe they will fix a few issues in the manufacturing process by year 2 like LR cant do in over 4.

Just thinking out loud so dont flame me too bad, but I would love this truck even more if they went with a Toyota, Chevy, or Ford drivetrain. Maybe even M/B, idk.
Longevity and cheaper to run/fix.

Please share your thoughts and reading through.
I thought it would help if you all had some back ground.

Thanks!

Hi Evomind, I purchased a new 2020 Defender 2 1/2 years ago. Best vehicle I have ever owned. In my opinion the best 50/50 on-road / off-road vehicle in the world. I have the straight 6 P400 gas engine, which delivers breathtaking 0-60 in 5.8 seconds performance. I have had it overlanding and off-roading and it is very capable, more so than I am. On road ride comfort is fantastic. I have not had any issues with wind noise and found the interior noise levels to be very reasonable, especially since I am running some All Terrain tires on them. I have owned 3 Range Rover Sports, a 2007, 2011 and 2019 and found them to be great vehicles too. The new defender is on another level better than those 3 sports. I took a chance buying the Defender in the first year it came out, I actually have a First Edition model. It took a leap of faith to buy a new model, however thankfully it has worked out for me. I am buying a new Grenadier and have already placed a pre-order. Hoping they work some of the software bugs out of it by the next software update. Likely will not have mine delivered until December 2023 or perhaps January 2024. Taking the leap of faith again. I have been following the Grenadier for about 2 years now and took a test drive approximately 2 months ago in a second generation prototype on an off road park in Santa Clarita / Los Angeles. I was incredibly impressed in the stout build quality of all the suspension and drive components and very pleased with the interior, which was a bit more lux than I was expecting. Not a squeak from the car while driving off road. Did not get to drive on road, however many have posted that it would be great as an about town vehicle and also for long trips. Yes, Ineos is a new car company and they will have some growing pains. I think they were smart to source some of the best engine, transmission and component suppliers in the world. Give me a lot more confidence to move forward. My expectations are that there will be some issues on such a new vehicle and new car company, after all they don't have the depth of knowledge that Land Rover has. I feel like after 1.7 million miles of testing and from everything I have read on this forum and experienced myself that any issue will be more minor.
The main reason I am switching from a new Defender to a new Grenadier is that I love the older style body and am ready for a new adventure.
I think that the new Grenadier will be the worlds best 65/35% off-road / on-road vehicle. Both the Defender and Grenadier are 2 great vehicles, there is no wrong decision here as which ever decision you make will be the best for you. Good luck on your journey!
Here's my favorite review of the Grenadier. Enjoy DaBull

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ue2TZQoDQ

DDG · Jun 6, 2023

I’ve read all of the same criticisms of the new Defender as well. I was a new driver back when the Defender was briefly available in the US (circa 1990). It was always a dream car for me; along with the Porsche 911 and Mercedes G wagen. My first JLR product was a 2009 Range Rover Sport Supercharged. I added a 2011 LR4 with the five liter V8. Traded the RRS for a full sized Range Rover in 2013. The LR4 did several cross country trips. The few issues that I had with the LR4 were rust related and it had an appetite for brake rotors. I had to replace brake lines due to rust in 2021. Sold the Range Rover for $35k (sticker price was $98k in 2013) in 2019 when I ordered a new G550. Ordered a new 2022 Defender the same day that JLR announced the V8 Carpathian Edition. Traded the LR4 in on the V8 Defender in December 2021. I’ve never been stranded by any of my four JLR products. I didn’t do anything special on the first three, other than regular msintenance and keeping them garaged. All were winter driven in NE US. The new Defender I’ve had the underbody treated with a wax/oil based anti-corrosion product. Oil changes every 5k miles religiously on every car I own (or every six months. Whichever comes first). Bottom line: the new Defender is the best built and most comfortable of any of mine. No issues at all. I’ve averaged 17 mpg over 20k miles (including an almost 5k mile roadtrip from NY to Utah and back to NY last month). I have not taken it rock crawling or any serious off-roading. Many miles of dirt and gravel trails while fishing and hunting, but I could have accomplished those trips in any non-sports car.
My grenadier will be ordered this week and is basically a Fieldmaster with every Trialmaster option short of the air intake. I’m super excited for it. I plan to use it every day. The defender and g wagen I will keep and enjoy when a little luxury is called for. Of course I will have a great opportunity to directly compare the three vehicles side by side by side. I’m looking forward to seeing all three together. One big plan for the Grenadier is to use it as a support vehicle for a trans-Canadian motorcycle trip next year. Planning to tow something like a medium size Airstream camper/caravan or a bike trailer. From my experience with the new Defender; I wouldn’t hesitate to use it for the planned trip.
Way too long of a post, I know. I agree that the new Defender is not a successor to the original. It’s a better Discovery 5. If approached from that perspective it makes more sense. It’s a complicated, comfortable, and beautifully built SUV. Doesn’t hurt that it has 500 horsepower either. The Grenadier is a proper original Defender replacement. Hopefully it will prove itself well-built and reliable. It is a miracle that in 2023 such a vehicle is being made at all.

evomind · Jun 6, 2023

Nice input guys.
I didnt mean to imply that the Defender or any other vehicle is a glass chandelier, Im just wondering when the vehicle has about 70k miles on it and things like the air suspension crap out, stuff like that.
I know in the past folks would just go coil over..
A friend of mine had a RR and the air suspension crapped out.
Fixed under warranty.
2 years later it crapped out again.
He wrote a check and fixed it.
2 years after that it happened again.
He wrote another check and traded it in.

evomind · Jun 6, 2023

Agreed on the Defender in the mix of off road and on road.
This vehicle wont be a daily driver though.

pioneerofthenile · Jun 6, 2023

evomind said:
Hello All,

I am a fan of the Grenadier!

My truck background started with an H3 and a lift some years ago.
Surprisingly capable.
Then I got into H1s.
I have owned 2 of them over the years.
Lifted, 40 inch tires, various other mods.
Had a few other trucks but much more mundane.

Since 2020 I have been looking at the new Defenders.
I am attracted to it for its mix of off-road and luxury.
I am very aware of the reliability problems most JLR products are plagued with.
So no way was I going to buy a first year model JLR product and figured I would see if they would take care of some of the niggles in 2021.
They didnt.
Same niggles.
Ok, I can wait. I am sure they will shore things up by 2022.
Same niggles, same story, and people keep buying them.
2023. Same thing. Wind noise, electronic gremlins to no end, etc.
I figure 2024 is enough time even for a seemingly lazy company like JLR to sort a premium vehicle.
I am not convinced.
I AM convinced JLR really could care less. Their audience keeps buying them so why should they change?
Again, once you drive off the lot they just dont care.

That said I think its a beautiful truck.
The best blend of off road and comfort that I can think of.

So, in the past few years I have looked at other trucks
Looked at Jeep Rubicons. Cool, capable, but a little too "cheaply" made as far as the interior goes.
I didnt think it drove all that bad.

I ordered a Bronco after it was announced and have delayed my order 2 model years because certain features were not available and what not.
I do have one that will probably arrive this fall. The wife wanted the white rood and I wanted the modular top so they finally decided to build it.
Its a heritage edition.
Not sure I will actually take delivery of it.

Bought my daughter a base Bronco for under 36k and its a great vehicle at that price.
I think the upper trims and spending 60k on a vehicle filled with so much cheap plastic and the wind noise makes you feel like youre blasting off in a space shuttle. (Same with the Jeep.)
I think the expensive trims the fit/finish/etc would tick me off.
Drove pretty nice, a little better than the Jeep.

Checked out the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk which I liked but I am sure the build quality or lack thereof will show in a couple of years and the vehicle will be depreciated to zero in about 5 years.
My biggest problem was, and maybe the excuse is Covid, but GC have always been discounted to hell but not lately and I just think a loaded Trailhawk is too much money for that vehicle.
I wasnt crazy about it anyway. I looked at it and it looked like 45k to my eyes.

My problem with the Defender is I want my next vehicle to last at least 10 years. I have little hope the I can keep a Defender on the road for 10 odd years without dumping A LOT of cash that I may not have at that point in my life.
Especially considering the cost of admission.
I can buy a good after market warranty if I want to drop another 7k.

Ok then.....I love the look and idea of the Grenadier. I am a car guy...I "get it."
I know its not the luxury off-roader the Defender is (Also not becoming the upscale soccer moms car either like the Defender.)
I know the Grenadier is more hard core and capable off road. We know that.
What I want to know is if the vehicle is comfortable for road trips?
My wife and I want something we cant drive all day to destinations and then off road once we get there.
Will we feel beat up after 6-8 hours on the highway like a Jeep?
I hear the seats are nice but there doesnt seem to be much as far as arm rests...
How is the interior material? I know it's a lot of plastic but how does it look and feel in person?
Im in Arizona. It's really hot sometimes. The Grenadier has a big cabin.
Will the A/C be able to keep up?

Again, not looking for an S Class but want something comfortable.

Some of my thoughts and observations....Keep in mind I have not seen one in person.
I think some of the fit and finish could be better for a vehicle costing over 80k USD optioned out.
I think its expensive.
I think the vehicle will last a long time.
I think maybe Ineos could use another 6-8 months refining time as I feel the first wave of owners are part of the R and D process.
IDK
Considering waiting another year. Maybe they will fix a few issues in the manufacturing process by year 2 like LR cant do in over 4.

Just thinking out loud so dont flame me too bad, but I would love this truck even more if they went with a Toyota, Chevy, or Ford drivetrain. Maybe even M/B, idk.
Longevity and cheaper to run/fix.

Please share your thoughts and reading through.
I thought it would help if you all had some back ground.

Thanks!

those are solid questions.

most reviews are very superficial about the grenadier. many people review it just from driving in it once and giving it a look over. they can't give fully thought answers to questions that many have. they may touch or gloss over them but most of the time it's inadequate. it's easy to not be bothered by something in a small sample.

you have to take many reviews or written thoughts with a grain a salt. it's obv this car isn't perfect right now. from steering, to weight, to poor visibility, to blind spots, etc. the electrical problems don't seem like an exception but the norm with this car as well.

as for comfort and it riding like a jeep. many have said it's a much better ride, but i've seen people say the opposite.

as for the interior. many say it's understated and utilitarian. this can also mean cheap, ugly and boring. don't get me wrong, most aren't looking for exotic woods and a leather dash, but we're not looking for a nerf football or Honda Element interior either for 100k.

the price is expensive as well.

what you do get is a unique car with vintage styling unlike anything new. it's something many would want to take off roading or tackle roads that you wouldn't normally do as well. as for long term and built well, that's still debatable. the cost and uniqueness will give the car an exclusive air to to. which will make some want it more.

I don't know where you draw the line from buying/not buying. but many that will buy this vehicle are well off enough that they simply may not care what the problems are and the inconvenience that comes with it.

Jeremy996 · Jun 6, 2023

I've had my Grenadier for about a month and a half and 2300 miles. There are some software glitches, but none of them have stopped it starting and driving. Other than that it has been better than I expected.
It feels like it was built like a bank vault; I can imagine it lasting 10 years easily and I can see myself being dragged out of it into my care home bed. (My old 1989 LR110CSW never felt as dependable, even when freshly rebuilt, although it was massively more basic).
The on-road ride is not saloon car smooth, but it is better than most modern German sports suspensions, you can tell it is live axled, but the big surprise is the relative lack of roll and the tidy cornering. Off road it is excellent, out-driving my old Defender, not least because it has plenty of power.

MrMike · Jun 16, 2023

evomind said:
Hello All,

I am a fan of the Grenadier!

My truck background started with an H3 and a lift some years ago.
Surprisingly capable.
Then I got into H1s.
I have owned 2 of them over the years.
Lifted, 40 inch tires, various other mods.
Had a few other trucks but much more mundane.

Since 2020 I have been looking at the new Defenders.
I am attracted to it for its mix of off-road and luxury.
I am very aware of the reliability problems most JLR products are plagued with.
So no way was I going to buy a first year model JLR product and figured I would see if they would take care of some of the niggles in 2021.
They didnt.
Same niggles.
Ok, I can wait. I am sure they will shore things up by 2022.
Same niggles, same story, and people keep buying them.
2023. Same thing. Wind noise, electronic gremlins to no end, etc.
I figure 2024 is enough time even for a seemingly lazy company like JLR to sort a premium vehicle.
I am not convinced.
I AM convinced JLR really could care less. Their audience keeps buying them so why should they change?
Again, once you drive off the lot they just dont care.

That said I think its a beautiful truck.
The best blend of off road and comfort that I can think of.

So, in the past few years I have looked at other trucks
Looked at Jeep Rubicons. Cool, capable, but a little too "cheaply" made as far as the interior goes.
I didnt think it drove all that bad.

I ordered a Bronco after it was announced and have delayed my order 2 model years because certain features were not available and what not.
I do have one that will probably arrive this fall. The wife wanted the white rood and I wanted the modular top so they finally decided to build it.
Its a heritage edition.
Not sure I will actually take delivery of it.

Bought my daughter a base Bronco for under 36k and its a great vehicle at that price.
I think the upper trims and spending 60k on a vehicle filled with so much cheap plastic and the wind noise makes you feel like youre blasting off in a space shuttle. (Same with the Jeep.)
I think the expensive trims the fit/finish/etc would tick me off.
Drove pretty nice, a little better than the Jeep.

Checked out the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk which I liked but I am sure the build quality or lack thereof will show in a couple of years and the vehicle will be depreciated to zero in about 5 years.
My biggest problem was, and maybe the excuse is Covid, but GC have always been discounted to hell but not lately and I just think a loaded Trailhawk is too much money for that vehicle.
I wasnt crazy about it anyway. I looked at it and it looked like 45k to my eyes.

My problem with the Defender is I want my next vehicle to last at least 10 years. I have little hope the I can keep a Defender on the road for 10 odd years without dumping A LOT of cash that I may not have at that point in my life.
Especially considering the cost of admission.
I can buy a good after market warranty if I want to drop another 7k.

Ok then.....I love the look and idea of the Grenadier. I am a car guy...I "get it."
I know its not the luxury off-roader the Defender is (Also not becoming the upscale soccer moms car either like the Defender.)
I know the Grenadier is more hard core and capable off road. We know that.
What I want to know is if the vehicle is comfortable for road trips?
My wife and I want something we cant drive all day to destinations and then off road once we get there.
Will we feel beat up after 6-8 hours on the highway like a Jeep?
I hear the seats are nice but there doesnt seem to be much as far as arm rests...
How is the interior material? I know it's a lot of plastic but how does it look and feel in person?
Im in Arizona. It's really hot sometimes. The Grenadier has a big cabin.
Will the A/C be able to keep up?

Again, not looking for an S Class but want something comfortable.

Some of my thoughts and observations....Keep in mind I have not seen one in person.
I think some of the fit and finish could be better for a vehicle costing over 80k USD optioned out.
I think its expensive.
I think the vehicle will last a long time.
I think maybe Ineos could use another 6-8 months refining time as I feel the first wave of owners are part of the R and D process.
IDK
Considering waiting another year. Maybe they will fix a few issues in the manufacturing process by year 2 like LR cant do in over 4.

Just thinking out loud so dont flame me too bad, but I would love this truck even more if they went with a Toyota, Chevy, or Ford drivetrain. Maybe even M/B, idk.
Longevity and cheaper to run/fix.

Please share your thoughts and reading through.
I thought it would help if you all had some back ground.

Thanks!

Hi @evomind
After reading your post a couple of things came to mind, this (the IG) isn't really like anything else I can think of in terms of driving experience.
It's feels very solid, almost tank like, the pillars are large and windows smallish by comparison to most vehicles. The driving experience on the open road is really fantastic with the steering very comfortable and predictable.
As a daily if you lived in the city could be a challenge as there is a distinct lack of vision for parking as there is only one camera.
A luxurious SUV this is not, comfortable, yes. Arm rests are fantastic, interior finish on both I've driven has been fantastic, I took a new 300 series Landcruiser for a drive and it feels lightweight comparatively. The amount of steel that has gone into it is considerable so the weight is there but this gives a feeling of it being "planted " to whatever surface you are on. The cabin feels compact but not small.
I've driven the new Defender and they are poles apart in almost every way.
Want an effortless driving experience? This is not your vehicle. You can't drive it about the city with one hand, driver input is what it's about.
My suggestion is wait until they have drivable demonstration vehicles available and make up your mind then.
I hope this is helpful to you

evomind · Jun 16, 2023

Thanks all for the responses!

I dont really need "luxury" but I do want it to be comfortable.
I dont drive in in cities where Ill be parallel parking it so thats not really a concern.

I like the toughness, the look, and the uniqueness.
I did have 2 H1s with a lift and 40" tires, so I understand steering feel and what not from "truck like" applications.
Those trucks I could cruise at 70mph on the highway with 1 hand. lol
Surprisingly steetable for what it was.
The G looks a little more comfortable too.

I want the wife to be able to drive it as she would occasionally drive the H1. Her biggest complaint was that it was too big.

YellowLab · Jun 21, 2023

Following the logic - if no one has been around the car beyond a simple test drive to dig into it beyond their initial impressions and folks do not want to hear that feedback, than no one other than current owners can spell out any downside from real world experience.

lightning · Sep 2, 2023

I love the Grenadier but the figures don't currently add up for me.

I've had no issues at all with my new Defender, bought in November 2022. So it would seem that l either got a good one, or they've improved.

l may be able to get a Grenadier when they appear on the used market.

FrankeMatt · Mar 2, 2024

evomind said:
Hello All,

I am a fan of the Grenadier!

My truck background started with an H3 and a lift some years ago.
Surprisingly capable.
Then I got into H1s.
I have owned 2 of them over the years.
Lifted, 40 inch tires, various other mods.
Had a few other trucks but much more mundane.

Since 2020 I have been looking at the new Defenders.
I am attracted to it for its mix of off-road and luxury.
I am very aware of the reliability problems most JLR products are plagued with.
So no way was I going to buy a first year model JLR product and figured I would see if they would take care of some of the niggles in 2021.
They didnt.
Same niggles.
Ok, I can wait. I am sure they will shore things up by 2022.
Same niggles, same story, and people keep buying them.
2023. Same thing. Wind noise, electronic gremlins to no end, etc.
I figure 2024 is enough time even for a seemingly lazy company like JLR to sort a premium vehicle.
I am not convinced.
I AM convinced JLR really could care less. Their audience keeps buying them so why should they change?
Again, once you drive off the lot they just dont care.

That said I think its a beautiful truck.
The best blend of off road and comfort that I can think of.

So, in the past few years I have looked at other trucks
Looked at Jeep Rubicons. Cool, capable, but a little too "cheaply" made as far as the interior goes.
I didnt think it drove all that bad.

I ordered a Bronco after it was announced and have delayed my order 2 model years because certain features were not available and what not.
I do have one that will probably arrive this fall. The wife wanted the white rood and I wanted the modular top so they finally decided to build it.
Its a heritage edition.
Not sure I will actually take delivery of it.

Bought my daughter a base Bronco for under 36k and its a great vehicle at that price.
I think the upper trims and spending 60k on a vehicle filled with so much cheap plastic and the wind noise makes you feel like youre blasting off in a space shuttle. (Same with the Jeep.)
I think the expensive trims the fit/finish/etc would tick me off.
Drove pretty nice, a little better than the Jeep.

Checked out the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk which I liked but I am sure the build quality or lack thereof will show in a couple of years and the vehicle will be depreciated to zero in about 5 years.
My biggest problem was, and maybe the excuse is Covid, but GC have always been discounted to hell but not lately and I just think a loaded Trailhawk is too much money for that vehicle.
I wasnt crazy about it anyway. I looked at it and it looked like 45k to my eyes.

My problem with the Defender is I want my next vehicle to last at least 10 years. I have little hope the I can keep a Defender on the road for 10 odd years without dumping A LOT of cash that I may not have at that point in my life.
Especially considering the cost of admission.
I can buy a good after market warranty if I want to drop another 7k.

Ok then.....I love the look and idea of the Grenadier. I am a car guy...I "get it."
I know its not the luxury off-roader the Defender is (Also not becoming the upscale soccer moms car either like the Defender.)
I know the Grenadier is more hard core and capable off road. We know that.
What I want to know is if the vehicle is comfortable for road trips?
My wife and I want something we cant drive all day to destinations and then off road once we get there.
Will we feel beat up after 6-8 hours on the highway like a Jeep?
I hear the seats are nice but there doesnt seem to be much as far as arm rests...
How is the interior material? I know it's a lot of plastic but how does it look and feel in person?
Im in Arizona. It's really hot sometimes. The Grenadier has a big cabin.
Will the A/C be able to keep up?

Again, not looking for an S Class but want something comfortable.

Some of my thoughts and observations....Keep in mind I have not seen one in person.
I think some of the fit and finish could be better for a vehicle costing over 80k USD optioned out.
I think its expensive.
I think the vehicle will last a long time.
I think maybe Ineos could use another 6-8 months refining time as I feel the first wave of owners are part of the R and D process.
IDK
Considering waiting another year. Maybe they will fix a few issues in the manufacturing process by year 2 like LR cant do in over 4.

Just thinking out loud so dont flame me too bad, but I would love this truck even more if they went with a Toyota, Chevy, or Ford drivetrain. Maybe even M/B, idk.
Longevity and cheaper to run/fix.

Please share your thoughts and reading through.
I thought it would help if you all had some back ground.

Thanks!

Are you near the foothills? I have seen a H1 around my area. If so, youre more than welcome to check out my Grenadier sometime.

evomind · Mar 3, 2024

FrankeMatt said:
Are you near the foothills? I have seen a H1 around my area. If so, youre more than welcome to check out my Grenadier sometime.

I would love to check out your grenadier sometime but the H1 youre seeing isnt mine, as I sold it some years ago....
But here are some pics anyway.

Tom109 · Mar 3, 2024

evomind said:
I would love to check out your grenadier sometime but the H1 youre seeing isnt mine, as I sold it some years ago....
But here are some pics anyway.

Do I not see CTIS on your wheels ???

AnD3rew · Mar 3, 2024

evomind said:
Hello All,

I am a fan of the Grenadier!

My truck background started with an H3 and a lift some years ago.
Surprisingly capable.
Then I got into H1s.
I have owned 2 of them over the years.
Lifted, 40 inch tires, various other mods.
Had a few other trucks but much more mundane.

Since 2020 I have been looking at the new Defenders.
I am attracted to it for its mix of off-road and luxury.
I am very aware of the reliability problems most JLR products are plagued with.
So no way was I going to buy a first year model JLR product and figured I would see if they would take care of some of the niggles in 2021.
They didnt.
Same niggles.
Ok, I can wait. I am sure they will shore things up by 2022.
Same niggles, same story, and people keep buying them.
2023. Same thing. Wind noise, electronic gremlins to no end, etc.
I figure 2024 is enough time even for a seemingly lazy company like JLR to sort a premium vehicle.
I am not convinced.
I AM convinced JLR really could care less. Their audience keeps buying them so why should they change?
Again, once you drive off the lot they just dont care.

That said I think its a beautiful truck.
The best blend of off road and comfort that I can think of.

So, in the past few years I have looked at other trucks
Looked at Jeep Rubicons. Cool, capable, but a little too "cheaply" made as far as the interior goes.
I didnt think it drove all that bad.

I ordered a Bronco after it was announced and have delayed my order 2 model years because certain features were not available and what not.
I do have one that will probably arrive this fall. The wife wanted the white rood and I wanted the modular top so they finally decided to build it.
Its a heritage edition.
Not sure I will actually take delivery of it.

Bought my daughter a base Bronco for under 36k and its a great vehicle at that price.
I think the upper trims and spending 60k on a vehicle filled with so much cheap plastic and the wind noise makes you feel like youre blasting off in a space shuttle. (Same with the Jeep.)
I think the expensive trims the fit/finish/etc would tick me off.
Drove pretty nice, a little better than the Jeep.

Checked out the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk which I liked but I am sure the build quality or lack thereof will show in a couple of years and the vehicle will be depreciated to zero in about 5 years.
My biggest problem was, and maybe the excuse is Covid, but GC have always been discounted to hell but not lately and I just think a loaded Trailhawk is too much money for that vehicle.
I wasnt crazy about it anyway. I looked at it and it looked like 45k to my eyes.

My problem with the Defender is I want my next vehicle to last at least 10 years. I have little hope the I can keep a Defender on the road for 10 odd years without dumping A LOT of cash that I may not have at that point in my life.
Especially considering the cost of admission.
I can buy a good after market warranty if I want to drop another 7k.

Ok then.....I love the look and idea of the Grenadier. I am a car guy...I "get it."
I know its not the luxury off-roader the Defender is (Also not becoming the upscale soccer moms car either like the Defender.)
I know the Grenadier is more hard core and capable off road. We know that.
What I want to know is if the vehicle is comfortable for road trips?
My wife and I want something we cant drive all day to destinations and then off road once we get there.
Will we feel beat up after 6-8 hours on the highway like a Jeep?
I hear the seats are nice but there doesnt seem to be much as far as arm rests...
How is the interior material? I know it's a lot of plastic but how does it look and feel in person?
Im in Arizona. It's really hot sometimes. The Grenadier has a big cabin.
Will the A/C be able to keep up?

Again, not looking for an S Class but want something comfortable.

Some of my thoughts and observations....Keep in mind I have not seen one in person.
I think some of the fit and finish could be better for a vehicle costing over 80k USD optioned out.
I think its expensive.
I think the vehicle will last a long time.
I think maybe Ineos could use another 6-8 months refining time as I feel the first wave of owners are part of the R and D process.
IDK
Considering waiting another year. Maybe they will fix a few issues in the manufacturing process by year 2 like LR cant do in over 4.

Just thinking out loud so dont flame me too bad, but I would love this truck even more if they went with a Toyota, Chevy, or Ford drivetrain. Maybe even M/B, idk.
Longevity and cheaper to run/fix.

Please share your thoughts and reading through.
I thought it would help if you all had some back ground.

Thanks!

I have now done over 13,000 kms in mine a lot of it on the highway quite a few 10-12 hour days driving and I find it extremely comfortable probably the best highway cruiser I have ever owned. Love the driving position and the visibility, the seats are very comfortable and they have nailed the suspension

evomind · Mar 3, 2024

Tom109 said:
Do I not see CTIS on your wheels ???

You dont see it but it is there.
The later models they ran the line behind the rim cover.

FrankeMatt · Mar 3, 2024

evomind said:
I would love to check out your grenadier sometime but the H1 youre seeing isnt mine, as I sold it some years ago....
But here are some pics anyway.

Awesome. I had 02' wagon just like this only black.

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