Americas Interesting Steering / Adjustment Post from Owl Vans Engineering

Deleted member 9047666 (user closed account) · Feb 29, 2024

Interesting post on YouTube from Owl Vans Engineering about the driveability of the Grenadier at 'speed.' Somewhat of a simple and disturbing revelation about the alignment/caster of the Grenadier. Whether it was 'by design' or 'by accident' as referenced in the video, zero caster is no good and 2 degrees is probably only marginally better. This is what makes shopping carts turn quickly in a grocery when you miss an item in Aisle 5 and a bad idea to go fast in the parking lot with your buddy in the cart.

My 1976 Ford Bronco had this issue but it's 50 years old and was designed to go 55 MPH, max. Parts were thrown at it years later to solve the problem but we shouldn't be dealing with this in a modern vehicle.

I will say this publicly, my Grenadier will see more road/highway / city miles than trail miles, and safety and a quality driving experience are VERY IMPORTANT to me.

I would rather they solved this issue at the port than, politely, 'screwing around' with the trailer hitch.

Flame away.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiQ7E7a8Gds

AngusMacG · Mar 1, 2024

I’ve driven close to 3k miles in my Grenadier with about 95% of it on the highway. My speed has been anywhere from 55-85 mph and I have not had any issues with the steering. I actually prefer the steering as is and appreciate the “manualness” of the driving experience in the Grenadier.

LC0013 · Mar 1, 2024

Funny, my Grenadier does not wander on the highway. I hope it does not get conflicted.

I wonder what torque "super tight" is...

Korg · Mar 1, 2024

Offroad said:
Interesting post on YouTube from Owl Vans Engineering about the driveability of the Grenadier at 'speed.' Somewhat of a simple and disturbing revelation about the alignment/caster of the Grenadier. Whether it was 'by design' or 'by accident' as referenced in the video, zero caster is no good and 2 degrees is probably only marginally better. This is what makes shopping carts turn quickly in a grocery when you miss an item in Aisle 5 and a bad idea to go fast in the parking lot with your buddy in the cart.

My 1976 Ford Bronco had this issue but it's 50 years old and was designed to go 55 MPH, max. Parts were thrown at it years later to solve the problem but we shouldn't be dealing with this in a modern vehicle.

I will say this publicly, my Grenadier will see more road/highway / city miles than trail miles, and safety and a quality driving experience are VERY IMPORTANT to me.

I would rather they solved this issue at the port than, politely, 'screwing around' with the trailer hitch.

Flame away.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiQ7E7a8Gds

Very interesting and a great suggestion that I will try. I picked up my Grenadier yesterday and found the steering very concerning as it was requiring constant steering inputs. After checking the tire pressure and correcting it down a couple of PSI to the specified setting it drove much better.

Psignore00 · Mar 1, 2024

Korg said:
Very interesting and a great suggestion that I will try. I picked up my Grenadier yesterday and found the steering very concerning as it was requiring constant steering inputs. After checking the tire pressure and correcting it down a couple of PSI to the specified setting it drove much better.

Yeah, anyone who doesn’t “like the steering” needs to check their tire psi and lower it to 37ish. What a difference it made from the 45ish the dealer had it set to.

j.ironfab · Mar 1, 2024

We usually aim for 4-6 degrees on solid axle swaps that will be the my end goal with the gren might have to build control arms to get that much.

anand · Mar 1, 2024

LC0013 said:
I wonder what torque "super tight" is...

If memory serves me correctly from doing daily inspections on PTO2 trucks, something in the 110-140lb/ft range

anand · Mar 1, 2024

2 deg of caster is the factory setting

Mountain4x4 · Mar 1, 2024

I just cannot get over the fact that my daily driver, a Power Wagon has all the same claims about wandering and poor steering. The only issue I have seen is with badly worn tires, and its turning radius is awful as well. I get it, most people would not daily a Power Wagon. But honestly I think the steering is excellent. Heavy Duty solid axles give you a level of confidence that IFS can never deliver, beyond IFS just shedding parts off road for its entire life. The amount of issues on road handling I had with worn IFS parts in 200K is FAR worse then my solid axle Power Wagon.

OGrid · Mar 1, 2024

Korg said:
Very interesting and a great suggestion that I will try. I picked up my Grenadier yesterday and found the steering very concerning as it was requiring constant steering inputs. After checking the tire pressure and correcting it down a couple of PSI to the specified setting it drove much better.

May I suggest getting a wheel alignment. It does improve things.

bodhizaffa · Mar 1, 2024

Have driven 2500 miles so far. At first the car was pulling hard to the left on the highway (over 60). Adjustments were made and things improved - now at highway speeds while coasting the car drives straight. If I accelerate it darts hard to the left.

bamanuke · Mar 1, 2024

I'll hit 7000 miles this weekend. Like others have commented, airing down makes a big difference.

bigleonski · Mar 1, 2024

bamanuke said:
I'll hit 7000 miles this weekend. Like others have commented, airing down makes a big difference.

I assume this has been covered elsewhere, but unladen / lightly laden are you talking 38/40 or 40/40 or lower? I used to run the 200 series at 40 front and back day to day.
I’ll be doing 2000km mostly highway in the first few days of ownership so I’d like to get it sorted early.

Clark Kent · Mar 1, 2024

Offroad said:
Interesting post on YouTube from Owl Vans Engineering about the driveability of the Grenadier at 'speed.' Somewhat of a simple and disturbing revelation about the alignment/caster of the Grenadier. Whether it was 'by design' or 'by accident' as referenced in the video, zero caster is no good and 2 degrees is probably only marginally better. This is what makes shopping carts turn quickly in a grocery when you miss an item in Aisle 5 and a bad idea to go fast in the parking lot with your buddy in the cart.

My 1976 Ford Bronco had this issue but it's 50 years old and was designed to go 55 MPH, max. Parts were thrown at it years later to solve the problem but we shouldn't be dealing with this in a modern vehicle.

I will say this publicly, my Grenadier will see more road/highway / city miles than trail miles, and safety and a quality driving experience are VERY IMPORTANT to me.

I would rather they solved this issue at the port than, politely, 'screwing around' with the trailer hitch.

Flame away.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiQ7E7a8Gds

I shared some comments on caster from an ARB/OME dealer last September here. Similar thinking. The Grenadier should have more caster.

Psignore00 · Mar 1, 2024

Mountain4x4 said:
I just cannot get over the fact that my daily driver, a Power Wagon has all the same claims about wandering and poor steering. The only issue I have seen is with badly worn tires, and its turning radius is awful as well. I get it, most people would not daily a Power Wagon. But honestly I think the steering is excellent. Heavy Duty solid axles give you a level of confidence that IFS can never deliver, beyond IFS just shedding parts off road for its entire life. The amount of issues on road handling I had with worn IFS parts in 200K is FAR worse then my solid axle Power Wagon.

The power wagon was my #2 vehicle choice. It’s just a bit big for the trails.

Catpaw4x4 · Mar 1, 2024

bodhizaffa said:
Have driven 2500 miles so far. At first the car was pulling hard to the left on the highway (over 60). Adjustments were made and things improved - now at highway speeds while coasting the car drives straight. If I accelerate it darts hard to the left.

What adjustments did you make? Driving in inside/Left lane there is a strong pull to left (going "down" hill - road crown?) and if in outside/right lane less pulling to left because going up "crown". Thanks!

Catpaw4x4 · Mar 1, 2024

bamanuke said:
I'll hit 7000 miles this weekend. Like others have commented, airing down makes a big difference.

Have noticed that at dealer inflation, tires have a "high" center bulge. Will air down this weekend. What are you running at now?

anand · Mar 1, 2024

I believe the manual suggests an unladen pressure of 36-37psi...

Brian ( @GooseGear ) found the Grenadier to have almost 50/50 weight distribution, so divide your curb weight by 4 and that's the load each tire carries static, of course, this will change as you drive/turn/etc and weight transfers; but will give you an idea of pressures to start with. Beyond this you can also do the chalk test (using chalk, stripe the tread, then drive forward/back and see where chalk is missing, adjust accordingly up or down).

Jean Mercier · Mar 1, 2024

Offroad said:
Interesting post on YouTube from Owl Vans Engineering about the driveability of the Grenadier at 'speed.' Somewhat of a simple and disturbing revelation about the alignment/caster of the Grenadier. Whether it was 'by design' or 'by accident' as referenced in the video, zero caster is no good and 2 degrees is probably only marginally better. This is what makes shopping carts turn quickly in a grocery when you miss an item in Aisle 5 and a bad idea to go fast in the parking lot with your buddy in the cart.

My 1976 Ford Bronco had this issue but it's 50 years old and was designed to go 55 MPH, max. Parts were thrown at it years later to solve the problem but we shouldn't be dealing with this in a modern vehicle.

I will say this publicly, my Grenadier will see more road/highway / city miles than trail miles, and safety and a quality driving experience are VERY IMPORTANT to me.

I would rather they solved this issue at the port than, politely, 'screwing around' with the trailer hitch.

Flame away.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiQ7E7a8Gds

I drove almost 24000 km and got used to it. I even feel that my wheels do slightly "help" in going back straight.

I am not a mechanical engineer, and it was the first time I saw an explanation on "caster". Very interesting. Thanks for that!

[ Adam ] · Mar 1, 2024

It would have been nice if he showed how much caster his Grenadier was running when he initially put it on the rack. If the factory alignment specification is 2 degrees, I don't see how this is a "free upgrade". They just set the caster correctly.

I appreciate that Owl is trying to make a name for themselves in the Grenadier community by making helpful recommendations, but I don't see "make sure your car is aligned to factory specs" as groundbreaking.

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