Winter tyres

Tinerfeño · Dec 6, 2023

LeftCoastOverland said:
Never once did I get stuck.

I must be a bad driver because I have been stuck hundreds of times

Tinerfeño · Dec 6, 2023

This is from the same trip as the video:

ECrider · Dec 6, 2023

Tinerfeño said:
About one day. First one took lots of time. Probably second set would go in five hours
More than 1 kg of rubber was removed from each tyre.
Here those are tested in 25-30 cm of partly wet snow in my Defender 110 (std diffs, CDL locked):

View: https://youtu.be/EREBf_wAP2o

As you can see ridiculous spinning doesn't help but the tyres can regain traction even on the 30° slope with short reverse.

damn you, I'm late for supper now after clicking on that

ECrider · Dec 6, 2023

Tinerfeño said:
I must be a bad driver because I have been stuck hundreds of times

likewise.

klarie · Dec 6, 2023

bemax said:
I have them on my Defender for more then ten years.
No spikes needed. But you could screw them in!

Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 LT265/70 R17 121/118Q 10PR Aramid Sidewalls, bespiked @ ReifenDirekt.de

Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 LT265/70 R17 121/118Q 10PR Aramid Sidewalls, bespiked online günstig kaufen, ab 2 Reifen versandkostenfrei und schnell geliefert von ReifenDirekt.de - jetzt bequem online bestellen!

www.reifendirekt.de

The link you sent I know. It was one of them I looked at. It tells however "bespiked" this means studs are already in the tyre. No interest to pull em out. If there were a feature like capable to carry studs but no studs set fine with me.
But this is exactly the problem, it is possible to purchase it but with studs in.. I do not mount illegal tyres or do the torture of pulling studs out.

bemax · Dec 7, 2023

klarie said:
The link you sent I know. It was one of them I looked at. It tells however "bespiked" this means studs are already in the tyre. No interest to pull em out. If there were a feature like capable to carry studs but no studs set fine with me.
But this is exactly the problem, it is possible to purchase it but with studs in.. I do not mount illegal tyres or do the torture of pulling studs out.

You are right. It is strange. I ordered this tyre some times and they never came with spikes but only with the holes where you can screw them in. However, on ebay there seem to be some offers of DOT22 tyres without spikes.

Shaky · Dec 7, 2023

I had a bit of a shock the other day watching a video on YouTube from TFL.

They were testing their Range Rover on 3PMSF marked tyres. They said they had done some research into what 3PMSF actually meant and how tyres got to earn the symbol. They said it was all bout how the car ACCELERATED in snow and ice and that was about it.

Came as a bit of a blow as I run an Amarok and the IG on tyres with this symbol and realise I may not be so well set up for bad weather if their statement is true.

flynnsk · Dec 7, 2023

Shaky said:
I had a bit of a shock the other day watching a video on YouTube from TFL.

They were testing their Range Rover on 3PMSF marked tyres. They said they had done some research into what 3PMSF actually meant and how tyres got to earn the symbol. They said it was all bout how the car ACCELERATED in snow and ice and that was about it.

Came as a bit of a blow as I run an Amarok and the IG on tyres with this symbol and realise I may not be so well set up for bad weather if their statement is true.

I'd pay attention more to sites/channels that dedicate to tires/tyres. I personally am a fan of Tyre Reviews and Tire Lab.

stickshifter · Dec 7, 2023

Shaky said:
I had a bit of a shock the other day watching a video on YouTube from TFL.

They were testing their Range Rover on 3PMSF marked tyres. They said they had done some research into what 3PMSF actually meant and how tyres got to earn the symbol. They said it was all bout how the car ACCELERATED in snow and ice and that was about it.

Came as a bit of a blow as I run an Amarok and the IG on tyres with this symbol and realise I may not be so well set up for bad weather if their statement is true.

Hey Shaky,

Yeah, the 3PMSF is often given more weight than it deserves.

Really good on-road traction in winter conditions can only be attained by using a true winter tire. Individual drivers will have to do a cost/benefit analysis with regard to what tires make the most sense for their own circumstances. Here is a good, concise explanation of the 3PMSF from the Tire Rack:

So what, specifically, does the 3PMSF symbol mean?

In 1999, The U.S. Tire Manufacturers Association (USTMA) and the Rubber Association of Canada (RAC) agreed on a performance-based standard to identify passenger and light truck tires that attain a traction index equal to, or greater than 110 (compared to a reference tire which is rated 100) during the specified American Society for Testing and Materials traction tests on packed snow. The standard is intended to help ensure drivers can easily identify tires that provide a higher level of snow traction, and tires meeting that standard are branded with the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol.

Some important information to remember about 3PMSF branding.

Testing measures a tire's acceleration traction on medium-packed snow only. Braking and turning on snow, along with ice traction are not components of the test.
Tires branded with the 3PMSF symbol are expected to provide improved snow traction beyond a standard M+S branded all-season tire, however 3PMSF-branded all-season and all-terrain tires cannot match the traction of dedicated winter / snow tires in all winter weather conditions and should not be considered a replacement for where and when a dedicated winter tire is needed.

Source: https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-is-the-threepeak-mountain-snowflake-symbol

Shaky · Dec 7, 2023

flynnsk said:
I'd pay attention more to sites/channels that dedicate to tires/tyres. I personally am a fan of Tyre Reviews and Tire Lab.

I also watch/read those as well Flynnsk, I am not in a position to have an extra two sets of wheels and tyres dedicated to winter (lack of storage), and the UK where I am doesn’t get a lot of snow, in fact if I added all of the snow that has fallen around my house for the last 2-3 years I don’t think it would total 10” deep.

This leaves me trying to get the best middle of the road tyre and at this time that’s the fitted KO2 that came with the IG.

stickshifter · Dec 7, 2023

Shaky said:
I also watch/read those as well Flynnsk, I am not in a position to have an extra two sets of wheels and tyres dedicated to winter (lack of storage), and the UK where I am doesn’t get a lot of snow, in fact if I added all of the snow that has fallen around my house for the last 2-3 years I don’t think it would total 10” deep.

This leaves me trying to get the best middle of the road tyre and at this time that’s the fitted KO2 that came with the IG.

My 2-cents (for what its worth): given your circumstances (location, expected amount of snow driving, difficulty of having two sets of tires), I think sticking with the KO2s is a good plan.

I run dedicated snow tires in the winter, and KO2s in the summer. Toward the end of last April, it seemed like winter was over, so I took off my snow tires, and put on my KO2s. Then I drove five hours to the Grenadier off-road driving event in Colorado Springs. That drive took me over Vail Pass (10,600 feet), through Breckenridge, Colorado (9,600 feet), through Alma, Colorado (10,500 feet), before dropping down to the plains (~6,000 feet). Temperatures on Vail Pass and through the mountain towns were around 2 degrees Fahrenheit (-17 degrees Celsius), and conditions involved a thin layer of fresh snow on icy roads. The KO2s did great. Sure, my studded snow tires would have been much better, but in 4-wheel drive the KO2s provided decent traction in very challenging winter conditions.

Shaky · Dec 7, 2023

In some ways where I live is a disappointment, as I love the cold and snow and still get excited as the temp drops and I see snow outside. So I would love to experience some real good snow driving and be able to compare tyres etc, and would certainly have the right set up if I was in your location, as you have already.

Flooding of roads and having a higher vehicle to cope with it is my main obstacle on tarmac roads here, and like you say the KO2 tyres good enough are an overkill really, but with the off road driving I have done so far they have been great.

LeftCoastOverland · Dec 7, 2023

Tinerfeño said:
I must be a bad driver because I have been stuck hundreds of times

I must not be trying hard enough

LeftCoastOverland · Dec 7, 2023

Not Duratracs… but also not getting stuck!

Krabby · Dec 7, 2023

4-wheel-drive allows you to get stuck in much more interesting places.

LeftCoastOverland · Dec 8, 2023

Krabby said:
4-wheel-drive allows you to get stuck in much more interesting places.

You’re right, The Hana Rainforest on Maui is quite uninteresting.

coloradosnow · Dec 8, 2023

My Grenadier is now at the dealer (Red Noland, Colorado Springs) and I should have it by end next week - doing more checks, etc

Winter tires. Had a heck of a time here in the US as big players (tire shops) want the vehicle in their system to place online orders (so can verify are right specs). And don't want to sell them otherwise. I also think they are afraid of liability (our US litigation oriented society) of selling something below the manufacturers recommendation. After several calls, lots of online research, made a purchase of:
- Method MR706 wheels (17x7.5; 84.1mm bore; +50mm offset, 6x130 bolt pattern)
- Firestone Winterforce LT 265/70/17 121 load index. After a ton of internal debate, I decided on 116 index or higher (as that is what the OEM Duelers are). But didn't find much available. the Blizzak LT tires had poorer ratings than their 115 index and below counterparts (which I have on 3 vehicles). Also liked the tread depth on these. Many more options at 115 load index that I really liked, but figured, screw it, go for the higher index.

Wheels coming from California warehouse, tires from Colorado warehouse, so should have in time for my vehicle pick-up late next week.

Attached is a door plate sent to me by the dealer to assist in the load ratings. And appreciate some of the analysis Leopold did in Germany on his choice.

Baron von Teuchter · Dec 20, 2023

I found these:

Yokohama W.Drive V902B (Winter Tyre) 285/65 R17 H (116)

Hope we get some ice and snow soon to test them out

Baron von Teuchter · Dec 20, 2023

Scotsitalian said:
Evening BVT,
I also live in Aberdeenshire so know the score.
I like BFG AT2 but my Gren came with the Bridgestones ( long story after N1/M1 fiasco), totally useless in snow or deep mud so I’m ditching them and going with Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac 255/70R18, £113/corner fitted and filled with N2 from Costco in Westhill, I will get BFG when it gets a bit more sensible but my dealer was quoting £358+vat for one! I’ve been trying to get Costco to supply BFG since they are owned by Michelin but not interested!

Sorry I missed this! Let me know how you get on with them in ice and snow, the pattern looks good

Scotsitalian · Dec 23, 2023

Baron von Teuchter said:
Sorry I missed this! Let me know how you get on with them in ice and snow, the pattern looks good

Wil do but I have to wait for some snow to arrive!
going into Costco on Xmas eve as Goodyears finally here so I’ll post a photo of them fitted

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Winter tyres

Tinerfeño

Tinerfeño

ECrider

ECrider

klarie

Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 LT265/70 R17 121/118Q 10PR Aramid Sidewalls, bespiked @ ReifenDirekt.de

bemax

Shaky

flynnsk

stickshifter

Shaky

stickshifter

Shaky

LeftCoastOverland

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Krabby

Global Grenadier 76

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