Aux or second battery -

HDFB131 · Nov 2, 2023

OK the auxiliary battery is standard on the Trialmaster edition.
1, If you have a Fieldmaster that has had the 'High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel & External Preparation' option added - does this include the Auxiliary battery?
2, If you want to fit the winch - I am guessing you must have the Auxiliary battery?

I am looking seriously at getting an IG - Trialmaster with winch would be great but there does not seem to be that many Trialmasters about - let alone with a winch.

What I am seeing are some (reasonable ) Fieldmasters that would need so modifiaction.

OK - yes I could order to my exact spec - but i'm impatient & told I could wait 12 months!!!

Thanks

anand · Nov 2, 2023

It should be specified, are you looking for one on the used market (and thus a 2023 vehicle) or seeing what will be arriving at agents (2024 vehicle)? I ask because the standard specifications are slightly different.

The High Load Aux Switch Panel does not give you the aux. battery by default; also, if you are looking to fit an aftermarket winch, you would not need the aux battery.

Tinerfeño · Nov 2, 2023

IHMO electric winch needs additonal battery capacity. I've drained two batteries in 15 minutes ...

anand · Nov 2, 2023

Tinerfeño said:
IHMO electric winch needs additonal battery capacity. I've drained two batteries in 15 minutes ...

With the vehicle running?!? We regularly winch on single battery vehicles and assuming you're doing normal duty cycles have never killed a battery

ADVAW8S · Nov 2, 2023

Plus doesn't the engine need to be running for the winch to even be working since you need to be in drive, reverse or neutral. The shifter won't go into gear unless the engine is on.

Tinerfeño · Nov 2, 2023

Happened to me only once. Know some others too.

Alternator can't compensate winch motor draw which is about same size as engine starter motor.

anand · Nov 2, 2023

Tinerfeño said:
Happened to me only once. Know some others too.

Alternator can't compensate winch motor draw which is about same size as engine starter motor.

Not knowing the specific draw of the RED winch, I'll use an average for calculations...

A Warn Zeon 10, pulling a very stuck Grenadier (we'll call it a stuck weight of 10,000lbs, or 4500kg), will draw 409 amps (winching 6000lbs, 2720kg, only draws 280 amps)

So that will draw 409 amp hours in 1 hour of winching. The winch has 100ft of line, yielding roughly 90ft of line usable, at full 10,000lbs of pull, the winch can pull 4.8 feet per minute. Or, 18min 45 seconds for a full length pull. Assuming the winch can operate for that long in a single pull without a cool down period, it would draw 127.8Ah from the battery. The engine alternator, putting out a (lower than actual) 100A at idle, will charge 31.25Ah into the battery; or a net loss of 96.55Ah. From rough memory, the main battery on the Grenadier is something in the neighborhood of 100Ah, so yes, that would lead to a situation where the battery would be effectively be killed.

In reality, you're winching 30-60 seconds at a time and readjusting, or just confirming that everything is good, and in those moments, the alternator is happily recharging the battery. In most extended winching operations the "off" time exceeds the "on" time. In this case, a 25% duty cycle would yield no loss of battery State of Charge. This is also not accounting for any amount of traction (or decrease in "stuck weight") that would decrease electrical draw.

I'm not at all saying that you couldn't kill a battery while winching, especially on other vehicles, but those with a robust charging/electrical storage setup like the Grenadier make it much more difficult.

Tazzieman · Nov 3, 2023

Just for interest , this stunt was repeated several times using 2x200Ah Lithium batteries, drawing them down 30%

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hopefulkiwi · Nov 3, 2023

HDFB131 said:
OK the auxiliary battery is standard on the Trialmaster edition.
1, If you have a Fieldmaster that has had the 'High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel & External Preparation' option added - does this include the Auxiliary battery?
2, If you want to fit the winch - I am guessing you must have the Auxiliary battery?

I am looking seriously at getting an IG - Trialmaster with winch would be great but there does not seem to be that many Trialmasters about - let alone with a winch.

What I am seeing are some (reasonable ) Fieldmasters that would need so modifiaction.

OK - yes I could order to my exact spec - but i'm impatient & told I could wait 12 months!!!

Thanks

i dont know where you are looking but a lot of the grenadiers here are trialmasters(look at the signatures)

HDFB131 · Nov 3, 2023

Thanks for the responses -
I am looking at 2023 'used' mainly as I don't want to wait for 8 to 12 months for new.
OK - so 'High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel & External Preparation' does not include the aux battery.

For me to have & run a winch - I would want the comfort factory of having an aux battery (just to be safe)

So in reality to achieve the build I want I really need to find a Trialmaster - either with a winch already or potentially add one.

I am off to see a Fieldmaster - as there is one near me - they also have a Trialmaster - but the salesman said he knew little about it as it has just arrived & is not even prep'd.
I have been told I can have a look at it - so I will be able to do my comparison -

Thanks

CountyV8 · Nov 3, 2023

ADVAW8S said:
Plus doesn't the engine need to be running for the winch to even be working since you need to be in drive, reverse or neutral. The shifter won't go into gear unless the engine is on.

No winch can babe made to work in carwash mode

Tinerfeño · Nov 3, 2023

anand said:
I'm not at all saying that you couldn't kill a battery while winching, especially on other vehicles, but those with a robust charging/electrical storage setup like the Grenadier make it much more difficult.

It certainly did.

And please remember that IG takes about 40 A (based on measurements from similar vehicles) when engine is running without any other loads and this is away from battery charging. And in real winter conditions you never have too much battery capacity for cold starts.

But you can choose whatever you like, these are just my thoughs.

Krabby · Nov 3, 2023

HDFB131 said:
Thanks for the responses -
I am looking at 2023 'used' mainly as I don't want to wait for 8 to 12 months for new.
OK - so 'High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel & External Preparation' does not include the aux battery.

For me to have & run a winch - I would want the comfort factory of having an aux battery (just to be safe)

So in reality to achieve the build I want I really need to find a Trialmaster - either with a winch already or potentially add one.

I am off to see a Fieldmaster - as there is one near me - they also have a Trialmaster - but the salesman said he knew little about it as it has just arrived & is not even prep'd.
I have been told I can have a look at it - so I will be able to do my comparison -

Thanks

The field master will have the open space under the rear seat where a second battery could be installed. The '24 MY FMs will have a subwoofer there but if not, there's just an easily removable storage bin and plenty of room for a second battery. I'm confident any reputable auto electrician could install a second battery setup for you utilizing that space.

anand · Nov 3, 2023

HDFB131 said:
For me to have & run a winch - I would want the comfort factory of having an aux battery (just to be safe)

So the winch (and all accessories) are connected to the main battery, not the aux battery, and the Smartpass 120S that regulates charge and isolates the two batteries in the Grenadier does not continuously link them for discharges (such as doing a traditional isolator like a Blue Sea ML-ACR). CTEK states that the unit can pass up to 350A for 10 seconds from the aux battery to the main battery. Thus if you are winching for longer than 10 seconds (which, to deplete the main battery would take MUCH longer than that), the CTEK will open its internal relay and disconnect the batteries, thus effectively leaving you back to a single battery winching operation. Beyond that, the CTEK allows the aux battery to jump the primary battery (using the same exact function of a 10 second connection), but that is no better than carrying a small lithium jump pack.

Just more food for thought

HDFB131 · Nov 3, 2023

Thanks all - yes lots to consider -
Have been and seen the car in the flesh as it were!!
Fieldmaster, Sterling Silver, Diesel.
Yes - leather (all black)
Yes - Auxiliary switches
Yes - Auxiliary battery
Yes - Military plug under rear bumper
Yes - Raised air intake
Yes - Twin sun hatches
Yes - External Utility Rail

For me the only thing missing is the winch.
They're going to give a 'cost to change' - 1 as the car stands & 1 with the addition of the winch.
It will be interesting to see what my 72 plate Defender 110 P400 XS is worth !!!!!

They did have a Trialmaster for comparison.
This didn't have the External Utility Rail
It didn't have the Auxiliary switches
It didn't have the auxiliary battery
It was badged up as a Trialmaster ???

After discussions the sales guy did say that if you really get checking the specs in the detail he said I have - then yes they see a lot of differences in what they are sent.

Will wait & see now - - thanks

Krabby · Nov 3, 2023

If it's a real TM I'm pretty sure it has the dual battery from the factory. Well I can say with certainty the new ones do.

anand · Nov 3, 2023

Krabby said:
If it's a real TM I'm pretty sure it has the dual battery from the factory. Well I can say with certainty the new ones do.

You'll know it is a TM for sure if it has the plaque under the windscreen

Krabby · Nov 3, 2023

anand said:
You'll know it is a TM for sure if it has the plaque under the windscreen

Did we ever discover if the model information is embedded in the VIN?

Tazzieman · Nov 3, 2023

Krabby said:
Did we ever discover if the model information is embedded in the VIN?

My Trialmaster decoded VIN gets as close as including "N2" (utility wagon). That's it.

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Aux or second battery -

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