loose nut of front stabilizer

Jean Mercier said:

As I have some "noises" since I did some off-road and stone tracks some weeks ago, I regularly try to find out what's wrong.

Yesterday, as my left front wheel was in a "left turn" position, I could easily inspect the wiring and conduits. I also grabbed with my hands several parts and tried to move them, and suddenly I perceived that the stabilizer was loose, the nut became loose, see the picture. Picture was taken after giving a quarter turn to the nut, with my hand! No tools.
View attachment 7828420

I tightened it, and used the paint marks to tighten it a bit more than the original position, see picture:
View attachment 7828422

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Hello Jean, my Gren was with the dealer for the software update and they changed the nuts from the stabilizers as per Ineos instructions (recall?). Better to check with your dealer as it surely is a known issue.

Glad you were able to catch it before total failure. That would not be fun to find out your sway bar has disconnected in an emergency maneuver. I have seen a lot of sway bar failures like broken disconnect pins, bent links, and escaped nuts. It's not critical to get you home, but if you know it's disconnected you can drive more carefully.

@Jean Mercier if I'm not mistaken there should be a running change in the design of that (perhaps different nuts?). The early PTO2 trucks had double nuts as a prototype quick-fix

moosetown said:

Glad you were able to catch it before total failure. That would not be fun to find out your sway bar has disconnected in an emergency maneuver. I have seen a lot of sway bar failures like broken disconnect pins, bent links, and escaped nuts. It's not critical to get you home, but if you know it's disconnected you can drive more carefully.

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I think he just got the US spec where apparently disconnecting sway bars are needed to go offroad.

WPP said:

Hello Jean, my Gren was with the dealer for the software update and they changed the nuts from the stabilizers as per Ineos instructions (recall?). Better to check with your dealer as it surely is a known issue.

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If only @Jean Mercier had a dealer who cared about Ineos customers……..

ECrider said:

just don't use a 'coalition' of both. Always useless.

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Almost as useless purple loctite!

@Jean Mercier Last week they added extra nuts on the stabilizer. It's a recall action that they have to do from Ineos. So they new the problem already. See pictures. I have everywhere double nuts on the connection points.

So everybody is best checking this!

That's ugly!
What's wrong with a locknut?

Voader - Oudersopzwier said:

@Jean Mercier Last week they added extra nuts on the stabilizer. It's a recall action that they have to do from Ineos. So they new the problem already. See pictures. I have everywhere double nuts on the connection points.

So everybody is best checking this!
View attachment 7828499

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Be interesting to see if @Jean Mercier gets a recall from his dealer - Hedin

Tazzieman said:

That's ugly!
What's wrong with a locknut?

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double nutting in my experience is not an effective way of arresting loosening.

lock nut or nylock or other means much better

Voader - Oudersopzwier said:

@Jean Mercier Last week they added extra nuts on the stabilizer. It's a recall action that they have to do from Ineos. So they new the problem already. See pictures. I have everywhere double nuts on the connection points.

So everybody is best checking this!
View attachment 7828499

Click to expand...

Be careful, this fix is not double strength, the two nuts are applying opposing forces, in opposite directions, the second nut is pushing the 1st nut inward away from the clamping direction. This action together with outward forces generated by the stabilizer arm is in fact is a weaker clamping force.

The flanged face nuts in the picture it is not possible to see the face of the original nut, could be washer faced nuts (smooth), serrated faced locking nuts, or even a crimped nut designed to add additional gripping force to the thread which in this case I doubt as they have been working loose in addition to not been torqued to the correct setting. Self locking nuts including Nylon insert nuts are designed for one time use only!

Voader - Oudersopzwier said:

@Jean Mercier Last week they added extra nuts on the stabilizer. It's a recall action that they have to do from Ineos. So they new the problem already. See pictures. I have everywhere double nuts on the connection points.

So everybody is best checking this!
View attachment 7828499

Click to expand...

To be honest, like @Tazzieman, @ECrider and @Unimog 406 said, this solution isn't a professional solution! This is a DIY solution (Do It Yourself). Quite scaring to see how the early owners are treated!

Jean Mercier said:

To be honest, like @Tazzieman, @ECrider and @Unimog 406 said, this solution isn't a professional solution! This is a DIY solution (Do It Yourself). Quite scaring to see how the early owners are treated!

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Best I find out the size of the required lock nut and buy some.

Jean Mercier said:

To be honest, like @Tazzieman, @ECrider and @Unimog 406 said, this solution isn't a professional solution! This is a DIY solution (Do It Yourself). Quite scaring to see how the early owners are treated!

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I don't think a DIYer would use this method, it needs a Nylock nut re-torquing to the correct setting

Trialmaster said:

Best I find out the size of the required lock nut and buy some.

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Brilliant. When you know the sizes and torque settings please can you share them? Maybe even a link to a supplier? Many thanks

Just checked and mine are double nutted.
Never encountered this before.
Anyone else seen it on a modern vehicle?
Whilst I was under there I noticed the sensor wires attached along the brake lines are also exposed.
I'll be careful wading through creeks full of branches...

Tazzieman said:

That's ugly!
What's wrong with a locknut?

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A locknut does not secure a nut or a bolted connection! It's only purpose is to prevent loosing the nut to have it still available where you can't get a new nut.

Securing a nut should not be necessary under normal conditions. It could become necessary if you have to expect vibrations, fluids, etc. and where the operating conditions are hard to tell. If it needs to be secured you need to use a screw locking fluid. But again, a well designed bolted connection which does not face extra stress does not need more than the right torque.

First of all the right torque is essential. if you want to keep a bolted connection working. If more bolts are used, as equal torque as possible between all screws is another very important factor in keeping things together. Unequal torque is one of the most common reasons for bolted connections failing. For example, I use a thread paste to equal the friction on my wheel nuts to get a more equal torque (and prevent corrosion. I use Molykote 1000 which sets the friction to a known value).

I would like to see more details of that connection, because a main part of the friction (beside the friction of the thread) which holds the bolt and nut in place is the friction between the nut and the surface and the head of the screw and the surface. From the picture I only can tell that there is/can be motion between the nut and the surface or the screw head and its surface where it should generate friction (except there is a sleeve which can't be seen here). That would be an absolute no go and the second nut is what should help temporarily. The surface under a nut/screw head should never ever move.

If there is a sleeve, which doesn't move, the reason for becoming loose could be a wrong sizing of the connection, vibrations which where not or not completely calculated into the sizing, corrosion or leaking fluids (like oil) creeping into the threads.

Please check with "An Introduction to the Design and Behavior of Bolted Joints" from John H. Bickford (ISBN-13 978-0824792978 ), who also wrote the standard book for maintenance of bolted connections in industrial and nuclear plants. He refers to many interesting tests made with bolted connections under various conditions and what you really can expect from torque wrenches.

AWo

Looking twice I assume, that the bolt and nut should not move in relation to the to the bar and that only the coupling rod moves (maybe it has a bearing)....however, the second nut shows, that it is not working as expected.

AWo

AWo said:

Looking twice I assume, that the bolt and nut should not move in relation to the to the bar and that only the coupling rod moves (maybe it has a bearing)....however, the second nut shows, that it is not working as expected.

AWo

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My normal practise is to follow the factory workshop manual ; well thet's what I've done with my last century cars , including Porsches and Benzes which as you know are well engineered. I always torque to spec and on critical areas use loctite as specified , and antiseize ( if recommended), but wary of altered torque values.
I also inhabit forums where expert mechanics are actively working on these cars.
So I do stuff according to factory specs and there service update bulletins.
The thing is , the Grenadier is new. We don't have the deep knowledge...yet.

Tazzieman said:

My normal practise is to follow the factory workshop manual ; well thet's what I've done with my last century cars , including Porsches and Benzes which as you know are well engineered. I always torque to spec and on critical areas use loctite as specified , and antiseize ( if recommended), but wary of altered torque values.
I also inhabit forums where expert mechanics are actively working on these cars.
So I do stuff according to factory specs and there service update bulletins.
The thing is , the Grenadier is new. We don't have the deep knowledge...yet.

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Yes, understand, but they also didn't invented all the wheels again...

AWo