Expedition Portal Article on the Quartermaster

ChasingOurTrunks · Jul 14, 2023

Decent write-up from Expedition Portal/Overland Journal on the new Quartermaster.

Ineos Debuts the Grenadier Quartermaster Overland Pickup - Expedition Portal

Ineos debuts their new grenadier quartermaster overland pickup, including a 1,675 pound payload and locking differentials for overlanding

expeditionportal.com

My personal thoughts:

It's not a home run. Base Payload is less than a Gladiator Sport - likely closer to Rubicon once lockers, skids, etc. are added - and it's base payload is only marginally more than the rest of the segment. It looks fantastic, but I'm hard-pressed to see what, functionally, the Quartermaster can/will do better than a Jeep Gladiator. They have similar payloads, similar economy figures, both have a "take photos the roof hole" option, and both are solid axles front and rear. The Quartermaster will tow a bit more than others in this space, but it ought to - if it's like the Grenadier, it will weigh a lot more than comparably footprinted vehicles - but if towing is the most important aspect for a user, this class of vehicle likely ain't the solution.

The differentiator is in reliability/longevity, which for Grenadier, is TBD. That makes the Quartermaster a tough sell here in North America. I see them being an even tougher sell in places that get great little diesel utes like the Hilux or D-Max, which while lacking the SFA, will go toe-to-toe with the Quartermaster in most of the other respects we've seen so far and have an exceptional track record of being rode hard and put away wet for decades.

Add in the fact that it's looking to be twice the price of the typical Gladiator prices, and nearly 3 times the price of the mid-sized competition from Ford and GM does not make me optimistic for the sales of this model.

DaveB · Jul 14, 2023

ChasingOurTrunks said:
Decent write-up from Expedition Portal/Overland Journal on the new Quartermaster.

Ineos Debuts the Grenadier Quartermaster Overland Pickup - Expedition Portal

Ineos debuts their new grenadier quartermaster overland pickup, including a 1,675 pound payload and locking differentials for overlanding

expeditionportal.com

My personal thoughts:

It's not a home run. Base Payload is less than a Gladiator Sport - likely closer to Rubicon once lockers, skids, etc. are added - and it's base payload is only marginally more than the rest of the segment. It looks fantastic, but I'm hard-pressed to see what, functionally, the Quartermaster can/will do better than a Jeep Gladiator. They have similar payloads, similar economy figures, both have a "take photos the roof hole" option, and both are solid axles front and rear. The Quartermaster will tow a bit more than others in this space, but it ought to - if it's like the Grenadier, it will weigh a lot more than comparably footprinted vehicles - but if towing is the most important aspect for a user, this class of vehicle likely ain't the solution.

The differentiator is in reliability/longevity, which for Grenadier, is TBD. That makes the Quartermaster a tough sell here in North America. I see them being an even tougher sell in places that get great little diesel utes like the Hilux or D-Max, which while lacking the SFA, will go toe-to-toe with the Quartermaster in most of the other respects we've seen so far and have an exceptional track record of being rode hard and put away wet for decades.

Add in the fact that it's looking to be twice the price of the typical Gladiator prices, and nearly 3 times the price of the mid-sized competition from Ford and GM does not make me optimistic for the sales of this model.

The one thing it does better than a Jeep Gladiator is not being a Jeep.

ChasingOurTrunks · Jul 14, 2023

DaveB said:
The one thing it does better than a Jeep Gladiator is not being a Jeep.

Touche Dave

Loc Nar · Jul 14, 2023

I'm cheering for the Quartermaster, because it's one step closer to a LWB Grenadier. That's about the extent of my interest.

anand · Jul 14, 2023

ChasingOurTrunks said:
Add in the fact that it's looking to be twice the price of the typical Gladiator prices, and nearly 3 times the price of the mid-sized competition from Ford and GM does not make me optimistic for the sales of this model.

This is where I have to disagree... Definitely not double the price of a Gladiator or triple the price of the rest of the "mid size" market.

In Australia, it starts at $110,000AUD, same as a Grenadier SW.

If we use that logic, a MY24 Quartermaster would start at $71,500USD here in the states. Add leather, lockers, some gear rails, etc. and you're around $82k

A Gladiator Rubicon similarly equipped comes in at $62,090USD; so there is a $20k premium (33%) on the Quartermaster. If you want to compare it to a Ranger Raptor, that comes in at $56,960USD; and if I had to take a guess, a MY24 (4th generation) Tacoma TRD Pro will be similar to that.

Is $20-25k worth having a better driving, quieter, more comfortable (and at least compared to a Tacoma and Gladiator, more spacious) vehicle? To some it definitely will be, to others, absolutely not.

Will it sell well in the US? I think so, specifically well after the Grenadier gets out into the spotlight and the "uninformed" find out about it

Of course, it's all speculation until they get here, but, I can pretty confidently say they'll at least sell one.... My plan is to sell my Grenadier for one

Krabby · Jul 14, 2023

ChasingOurTrunks said:
Decent write-up from Expedition Portal/Overland Journal on the new Quartermaster.

Ineos Debuts the Grenadier Quartermaster Overland Pickup - Expedition Portal

Ineos debuts their new grenadier quartermaster overland pickup, including a 1,675 pound payload and locking differentials for overlanding

expeditionportal.com

My personal thoughts:

It's not a home run. Base Payload is less than a Gladiator Sport - likely closer to Rubicon once lockers, skids, etc. are added - and it's base payload is only marginally more than the rest of the segment. It looks fantastic, but I'm hard-pressed to see what, functionally, the Quartermaster can/will do better than a Jeep Gladiator. They have similar payloads, similar economy figures, both have a "take photos the roof hole" option, and both are solid axles front and rear. The Quartermaster will tow a bit more than others in this space, but it ought to - if it's like the Grenadier, it will weigh a lot more than comparably footprinted vehicles - but if towing is the most important aspect for a user, this class of vehicle likely ain't the solution.

The differentiator is in reliability/longevity, which for Grenadier, is TBD. That makes the Quartermaster a tough sell here in North America. I see them being an even tougher sell in places that get great little diesel utes like the Hilux or D-Max, which while lacking the SFA, will go toe-to-toe with the Quartermaster in most of the other respects we've seen so far and have an exceptional track record of being rode hard and put away wet for decades.

Add in the fact that it's looking to be twice the price of the typical Gladiator prices, and nearly 3 times the price of the mid-sized competition from Ford and GM does not make me optimistic for the sales of this model.

Well said and you've hit upon lots of things I've been thinking about the QM too. We speak often of how the American car market is extremely complex and its buyers are fickle by most metrics - but when it comes to pickup trucks, it's a whole-other level of crazy.

Even putting the chicken tax aside, the NA QM will be expensive - essentially the same price as the wagons in the UK and Oz - so let's say the base-base in America is $71,500 USD. $70-grand opens up myriad options for an individual looking for a 4-door pickup/ute - so much more to pick from than the SUV if you add this proviso - legitimate off-road ability. We have a million SUV/crossover/wagon things, but virtually non of them even have low range boxes, let alone all of the characteristics that one requires to attack anything difficult off the tarmac.

That said, the US truck offerings cover everything pretty well and can be tailored for any particular task right off the showroom floor. Trying to keep apples to apples, we can ignore full-size trucks, but there are still fantastic offerings from all of the manufacturers in the mid-size class. The Ranger, new Taco, Nissan Frontier, and the GMC/Chevy twins are all on platforms no less than a few years old and the Gladiator isn't too long in the tooth either; the QM's competition is far more formidable than the Grenadier's. The QM has another huge hurtle to handle too - brand loyalty. Naturally Ineos Automotive has to make inroads with the Gren too, but I'm sure there are far more Chevy and Ford tattoos in America than JLR or Lexus.

It's going to be interesting to see how things go when the QM comes to NA.

Loc Nar · Jul 14, 2023

@Krabby - yeah, I think it's gonna need some objective - independent videos showing head to head competition between the Quartermaster and the many, many rivals in N.A. on some tough tracks/obstacles to move the needle here. Otherwise, everyone driving a Quartermaster - at least in the South - will be called Jean Girard. Hell, I'll probably be called that driving a Grenadier. I probably should go ahead and get a Nascar sticker.

DaveB · Jul 14, 2023

Krabby said:
Well said and you've hit upon lots of things I've been thinking about the QM too. We speak often of how the American car market is extremely complex and its buyers are fickle by most metrics - but when it comes to pickup trucks, it's a whole-other level of crazy.

Even putting the chicken tax aside, the NA QM will be expensive - essentially the same price as the wagons in the UK and Oz - so let's say the base-base in America is $71,500 USD. $70-grand opens up myriad options for an individual looking for a 4-door pickup/ute - so much more to pick from than the SUV if you add this proviso - legitimate off-road ability. We have a million SUV/crossover/wagon things, but virtually non of them even have low range boxes, let alone all of the characteristics that one requires to attack anything difficult off the tarmac.

That said, the US truck offerings cover everything pretty well and can be tailored for any particular task right off the showroom floor. Trying to keep apples to apples, we can ignore full-size trucks, but there are still fantastic offerings from all of the manufacturers in the mid-size class. The Ranger, new Taco, Nissan Frontier, and the GMC/Chevy twins are all on platforms no less than a few years old and the Gladiator isn't too long in the tooth either; the QM's competition is far more formidable than the Grenadier's. The QM has another huge hurtle to handle too - brand loyalty. Naturally Ineos Automotive has to make inroads with the Gren too, but I'm sure there are far more Chevy and Ford tattoos in America than JLR or Lexus.

It's going to be interesting to see how things go when the QM comes to NA.

My neighbour has a RAM1500 which he uses to tow his boat and a large caravan (not at the same time)
He just wanted a real full size American truck.
It is fully tricked up and cost him almost AUD$200K
He said it looks great but drives like a pig if your not on the motorway, squeaks, creaks and rattles and he wouldn't take it on a long trip.
Funny part was that while he was showing it to me we noticed it appears to be made in Mexico.

bigleonski · Jul 14, 2023

Payload (or lack thereof) is going to be the big achilles heel for the Quartermaster, particularly in Australia. I really think IA missed a big opportunity here, and sales won't be anything like what they hoped based on that alone. Particularly at the price point it has now been set at.
And the fleet market isn't going to move until they get confidence in parts availability etc, let alone lack of payload.

DenisM · Jul 14, 2023

My 2 cents

I assume the the chassis is more than capable of accommodating a higher GVM. A suspension upgrade and a mild engine remap for the diesel would no doubt get the payload over the 1 ton mark... It may become "market specific" for the GVM upgrade...

DCPU · Jul 14, 2023

bigleonski said:
Payload (or lack thereof) is going to be the big achilles heel for the Quartermaster, particularly in Australia. I really think IA missed a big opportunity here, and sales won't be anything like what they hoped based on that alone. Particularly at the price point it has now been set at.
And the fleet market isn't going to move until they get confidence in parts availability etc, let alone lack of payload.

Given what was being written only earlier this year (and presumably briefed by Ineos), it's seems they've managed to shed quite a lot of weight to get to the figures now being quoted:

"Due to its larger size and the reinforcements required in the load area, the Grenadier pickup will weigh more than the 2.7 and 2.8 tons (5,952 and 6172 pounds) of the gasoline and diesel off-road versions, respectively. Therefore, the payload will not exceed 600 - 650 kilograms (1,323 - 1,433 pounds), as there would not be much room to maneuver left up to the 3.5 tons (7,716 pounds) allowed by law."

INEOS Will Have Up to 3 New Grenadier Models to Offer Soon, Here's What We Know

INEOS Automotive is planning a range of 4-5 models, in addition to the Grenadier, Grenadier pick-up and an electric off-roader with two more models to follow

www.autoevolution.com

There's got to be 75kgs or more of weight in the tubular framework, if it's same spec 2" tube used on the stationwagon. I wonder if it's structural or more cosmetic?

MrMike · Jul 14, 2023

One thing to note that I was disappointed at is the rear room on the QM. It seems to be the same as the commercial IG which is pretty limited

DCPU · Jul 14, 2023

Yes, and obviously no option to adjust rearwards.

MrMike · Jul 14, 2023

DCPU said:
Yes, and obviously no option to adjust rearwards.

Not by the looks. They had the option to do that with the extra length I would have thought. But alas...no.

ChasingOurTrunks · Jul 14, 2023

anand said:
This is where I have to disagree... Definitely not double the price of a Gladiator or triple the price of the rest of the "mid size" market.

In Australia, it starts at $110,000AUD, same as a Grenadier SW.

If we use that logic, a MY24 Quartermaster would start at $71,500USD here in the states. Add leather, lockers, some gear rails, etc. and you're around $82k

A Gladiator Rubicon similarly equipped comes in at $62,090USD; so there is a $20k premium (33%) on the Quartermaster. If you want to compare it to a Ranger Raptor, that comes in at $56,960USD; and if I had to take a guess, a MY24 (4th generation) Tacoma TRD Pro will be similar to that.

Is $20-25k worth having a better driving, quieter, more comfortable (and at least compared to a Tacoma and Gladiator, more spacious) vehicle? To some it definitely will be, to others, absolutely not.

Will it sell well in the US? I think so, specifically well after the Grenadier gets out into the spotlight and the "uninformed" find out about it

Of course, it's all speculation until they get here, but, I can pretty confidently say they'll at least sell one.... My plan is to sell my Grenadier for one

Totally fair - I'm talking about in Canada though, but I'd not be surprised if folks didn't read through the 70+ pages of the "NA Pricing thread" where we learned the Gren in Canada is a lot of loonies relative to it's cost in freedom dollars

Here's my napkin math I had in mind when I made those comments: A Fieldmaster Grenadier in Canada starts at about $110k Canadian. Gladiators start at $61,215k here in Canada. It's not quite double the price but it's not far off. The Chevy Colorado starts at $34k CDN. So, ballpark 3x the price.

To be totally fair to the QM, those are base package Gladiators and Colorados -- they aren't the twin-locked premium versions of either vehicle in the way the Fieldmaster is. But, both platforms have been around for ~5-ish years, meaning the aftermarket is booming and the money left on the table in terms of price can make both these "base" versions real weapons that would go toe-to-toe offroad with what the QM appears capable of. The older age of the platform also means that gently used, both the Gladiator and the Colorados already off-road ready can be had for fairly cheaply.

Your math in the US market shows how much closer together the Gren and the QM is priced to the rest of market compared to Canada, where the rest of market appears to be "cheap" compared to how much people pay for cars around the world. Still, even a $20k-$25k premium is a big bite for what, functionally, doesn't really do anything that differently from what we've already got on the market. I'm not convinced it will be better driving or quieter, but it might be -- like you said though, the real question will be: What does the QM offer that is different than the rest of the market and is that worth $20-$25k (or more potentially in Canada) than the competition - no doubt they will sell out their quota though.

If they could have launched this with a true 1-ton payload, I think it would be an entirely different story. Despite what Scott says in the article, using any type of slide in camper in a vehicle like this with only 1600 lbs payload immediately turns them into a 1-person touring machine. With the current fleet of Mid-Sized trucks, including the QM, you can either bring a camper, or your family - but not both! Most campers for this form factor come in at over a thousand pounds on their own when loaded, which doesn't leave a lot of room for people especially if there's a bull bar and winch involved. Even putting a cap on these rigs will reduce your "useful" payload to be closer to par with the already water- and dust- proof mid-sized wagons (4-runner, JLU). Having a "true ton" payload though would make this far less of a tight game.

LRLC<Grenadier · Jul 16, 2023

the big question is will the QM have the 25% chicken tax applied ? Sorry if I missed this answer somewhere

ADVAW8S · Jul 17, 2023

LRLC<Grenadier said:
the big question is will the QM have the 25% chicken tax applied ? Sorry if I missed this answer somewhere

There building it in Mexico with delivery in 26. No chicken tax

Logsplitter · Jul 17, 2023

ADVAW8S said:
There building it in Mexico with delivery in 26. No chicken tax

Wow I missed that bit of news. Mexico

DCPU · Jul 17, 2023

Wasn't that a joke?

Tazzieman · Jul 17, 2023

DCPU said:
Wasn't that a joke?

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Expedition Portal Article on the Quartermaster

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Ineos Debuts the Grenadier Quartermaster Overland Pickup - Expedition Portal

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