Some clarifications concerning second seat row, Utility vs.Station Wagon

Jean Mercier · Mar 4, 2023

I don't know if this is the best thread to post this picture, but nice, when you fold the second row, you still have those rings for fixing stuff in the cargo part! (see the lower part of the picture).

Tom D · Mar 13, 2023

When I visited the dealer last week I moved the drivers seat back to my preferred driving position in the PTO commercial that they have. I then sat in the back. To be honest the knee room was ok. (I’m about 6’) the issue is more the steep angle of the backrest. That makes it a little uncomfortable, fine for the kids or short journeys, but otherwise a bit Ryanair.. I measured the mounting points for the seat back rests, they are approx 120mm further back in the Belstaff position. So whilst the seat base moves back 70mm the back moves back almost double. This will make them a lot more comfortable.
This gave me an idea, given that the seat back attaches to the sides of the car using a metal bracket, the seat base could be left where it was whilst a different bracket could be used to allow the seats to be reclined more. This would give the same floor space as before but with a more comfortable seating position….

Just a thought…

ECrider · Mar 13, 2023

Tom D said:
When I visited the dealer last week I moved the drivers seat back to my preferred driving position in the PTO commercial that they have. I then sat in the back. To be honest the knee room was ok. (I’m about 6’) the issue is more the steep angle of the backrest. That makes it a little uncomfortable, fine for the kids or short journeys, but otherwise a bit Ryanair.. I measured the mounting points for the seat back rests, they are approx 120mm further back in the Belstaff position. So whilst the seat base moves back 70mm the back moves back almost double. This will make them a lot more comfortable.
This gave me an idea, given that the seat back attaches to the sides of the car using a metal bracket, the seat base could be left where it was whilst a different bracket could be used to allow the seats to be reclined more. This would give the same floor space as before but with a more comfortable seating position….

Just a thought…

that's an interesting idea

Ever Pragmatic · Mar 13, 2023

Tom D said:
When I visited the dealer last week I moved the drivers seat back to my preferred driving position in the PTO commercial that they have. I then sat in the back. To be honest the knee room was ok. (I’m about 6’) the issue is more the steep angle of the backrest. That makes it a little uncomfortable, fine for the kids or short journeys, but otherwise a bit Ryanair.. I measured the mounting points for the seat back rests, they are approx 120mm further back in the Belstaff position. So whilst the seat base moves back 70mm the back moves back almost double. This will make them a lot more comfortable.
This gave me an idea, given that the seat back attaches to the sides of the car using a metal bracket, the seat base could be left where it was whilst a different bracket could be used to allow the seats to be reclined more. This would give the same floor space as before but with a more comfortable seating position….

Just a thought…

That’s a great idea. Better still, devise a mechanism that allows your to change the rake according to passengers or load space.

ECrider · Mar 13, 2023

Ever Pragmatic said:
That’s a great idea. Better still, devise a mechanism that allows your to change the rake according to passengers or load space.

another good idea

AnD3rew · Mar 13, 2023

emax said:
This sounds a bit like you haven't done many DIY projects yet?

No problem: You take a Jig-saw and cut out the panels. Then you fit a gullwing-window.
Prerequisite: There must be an after market offer of such a window first. But this is very likely only a matter of time.

After that, you can measure what to cut out.

The rest is business as usual. You can DIY or ask a camper-workshop to do this for you. It's all in all a very common procedure in the overlander scene. There are tons of video examples on youtube, here is a short one:

https://youtu.be/bWO3ZKwxEpc?t=40

Would be interesting to know if the solid panel is actually part of the frame or welded in, or if it mounted the same way a glas window panel is, you would think from a manufacturing efficiency perspective the latter makes more sense. In which case you wouldn’t even need a jigsaw. Would be a very simple job to remove.

AnD3rew · Mar 13, 2023

I hope you can buy the battery compartment cover separately and can move the cargo barrier to the forward position. That would mean that most of the time I would have the seats in for day to day use, but if setting up for a touring trip, take the back seats out, pop the cover on move the barrier forward and you are good to go with a 2 seat touring rig.

globalgregors · Mar 13, 2023

AnD3rew said:
Would be interesting to know if the solid panel is actually part of the frame or welded in, or if it mounted the same way a glas window panel is, you would think from a manufacturing efficiency perspective the latter makes more sense. In which case you wouldn’t even need a jigsaw. Would be a very simple job to remove.

Without going back through photos… spot welded and seam sealed I believe.

AnD3rew · Mar 13, 2023

globalgregors said:
Without going back through photos… spot welded and seam sealed I believe.

Ah well, there goes that idea

DaveB · Mar 13, 2023

AnD3rew said:
I hope you can buy the battery compartment cover separately and can move the cargo barrier to the forward position. That would mean that most of the time I would have the seats in for day to day use, but if setting up for a touring trip, take the back seats out, pop the cover on move the barrier forward and you are good to go with a 2 seat touring rig.

Yes that would be a great option

AnD3rew · Mar 13, 2023

DaveB said:
Yes that would be a great option

Of course it’s probably simple enough and cheaper to cut a piece of MDF and cover it with rubber or marine carpet instead if not. I did ask on one of the drive days if the cargo barrier could be moved forward as the roof mounts are already there, they said they didn’t think so, but tbh I got the impression they really had no idea if it could or not. I haven’t been able to see how it attaches at the bottom.

globalgregors · Mar 14, 2023

AnD3rew said:
Of course it’s probably simple enough and cheaper to cut a piece of MDF and cover it with rubber or marine carpet instead if not. I did ask on one of the drive days if the cargo barrier could be moved forward as the roof mounts are already there, they said they didn’t think so, but tbh I got the impression they really had no idea if it could or not. I haven’t been able to see how it attaches at the bottom.

We’ve seen two versions. The half barrier when fitted to a Belstaff edition attaches at the spot where you see the D-shackles, and at the designated spot on the roof.

When fitted in the commercial Station Wagon the lower mounting point is at the spot used to retain the seat back in the Belstaff. Attachment point at the roof is the same, but different brackets are used which relocate the barrier somewhat forward.

What I don’t know is whether the ‘Grenadier Edition’ station wagon available in Australia is configured same as the commercial (seat/barrier forward) or the Belstaff (seat/barrier rearward). The configurator images suggest the latter.

DenisM · Mar 14, 2023

globalgregors said:
We’ve seen two versions. The half barrier when fitted to a Belstaff edition attaches at the spot where you see the D-shackles, and at the designated spot on the roof.

When fitted in the commercial Station Wagon the lower mounting point is at the spot used to retain the seat back in the Belstaff. Attachment point at the roof is the same, but different brackets are used which relocate the barrier somewhat forward.

What I don’t know is whether the ‘Grenadier Edition’ station wagon available in Australia is configured same as the commercial (seat/barrier forward) or the Belstaff (seat/barrier rearward). The configurator images suggest the latter.

"The latter" is my understanding also... I had thought of ordering the cargo separator later if preparing for a long trip whence the SW second row seat and half height barrier would be removed. The floor to ceiling separation plus the "wall" at right angles makes for a handy DIY "MOLLE" base with "hanging" compartments ..

globalgregors · Mar 14, 2023

DenisM said:
"The latter" is my understanding also... I had thought of ordering the cargo separator later if preparing for a long trip whence the SW second row seat and half height barrier would be removed. The floor to ceiling separation plus the "wall" at right angles makes for a handy DIY "MOLLE" base with "hanging" compartments ..

If I understand your intention correctly, I believe we have a similar plan.

If the seat/half-height cargo barrier arrives in the rearward position, I am thinking to move the seat forward while keeping the barrier where it is. One can then use the barrier as you suggest, confident that anything mounted to it will not represent an obstruction for rear seat headrests, or indeed rear seat passengers.

I'm thinking I might mount the inverter there if I can't find somewhere else, along with the field first aid kit etc.

DCPU · Mar 14, 2023

globalgregors said:
Without going back through photos… spot welded and seam sealed I believe.

Screenshot_20221017_151743_com.facebook.katana.jpg

DCPU · Mar 14, 2023

AnD3rew said:
I did ask on one of the drive days if the cargo barrier could be moved forward as the roof mounts are already there, they said they didn’t think so, but tbh I got the impression they really had no idea if it could or not. I haven’t been able to see how it attaches at the bottom.

M1 has short brackets at the top and long brackets at the bottom picking up on one of the tie down ring mounting points:

N1 had long brackets at the top and short brackets at the bottom picking up on the seat back bracket mounting for the M1:

Various different final fixings have been seen across the prototypes, but it would be nice if final fixings were tooless.

Halliwell Jones Chester · Mar 14, 2023

DCPU said:
M1 has short brackets at the top and long brackets at the bottom picking up on one of the tie down ring mounting points:
View attachment 7806068
N1 had long brackets at the top and short brackets at the bottom picking up on the seat back bracket mounting for the M1:
View attachment 7806069
Various different final fixings have been seen across the prototypes, but it would be nice if final fixings were tooless.

I received a commercial production vehicle yesterday so will take a look when I get chance.

globalgregors · Mar 14, 2023

DCPU said:
View attachment 7806066

I wonder if this will be robotised and/or surface finished in the prod version?

Thank you for taking the time to dig out the images @DCPU !

DCPU · Mar 14, 2023

globalgregors said:
I wonder if this will be robotised and/or surface finished in the prod version?

Thank you for taking the time to dig out the images @DCPU !

I think it is robotised, although I've not seen any footage of that actual process.

The spacings for the spotwelds appear to pick up on some of those already in the frame from a previous operation to strengthen the surround:

Screenshot_20221208_170444_com.android.chrome.jpg

There seems to be two school of thought on visible spotwelds, so it remains to be seen if Ineos make a deliberate feature out of a necessity or "tidy" the finish?

globalgregors · Mar 14, 2023

DCPU said:
I think it is robotised, although I've not seen any footage of that actual process.

The spacings for the spotwelds appear to pick up on some of those already in the frame from a previous operation to strengthen the surround:
View attachment 7806074
There seems to be two school of thought on visible spotwelds, so it remains to be seen if Ineos make a deliberate feature out of a necessity or "tidy" the finish?

Oh, well spotted. In the category of first-world-problem for sure.

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Some clarifications concerning second seat row, Utility vs.Station Wagon

Jean Mercier

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