Europe Order cancelled

klarie · Feb 16, 2023

TD5-90 said:
Agree 110%. Have been using that same words for years when explaining why Germany isn't a country worth living in any more. We've totally unlearnt that live-and-let-live thing around here.
And, as already posted here: When I say "live", I mean live and not vegetate.

The guy has an English name - its on LinkedIn.
If you like on private and you ve got a LinkedIn Account I can direct you to the Ineos Post in question.
But serious - in Germany I find a lot of people how have acquired a know-it-all attitude in particular environmentalists.
That are the guys I am mostly confronted with when in forest and agricultural.. I am out there for a reason.
I would not buy a Grenadier if d'live in Frankfurt am Main or Downtown London or Dublin and no reason to go offroad at all
in London I would own an E-Bike and an (Oyster - Card, RMV .. what ever is applicable) - and rent a car if really needed. (but seriously livin in London is something I never would like to)
In the beginning I wrote I would not need it but I want one. - The reason of not needing it means - there are perhaps other cars that could fulfil the same requirements (more or less) - But the Grenadier seems to fulfil it as the best possible option off-road. And all tests so far have confirmed my assumptions plus tried myself.
So why going with something less capable if I have the option to do it right?

Krabby · Feb 16, 2023

I think a vast majority of us here don't "need" a truck like this, and certainly not as a daily driver - I'm in that camp, so much so I might keep my Fit/Jazz as the runabout after I get my hands on a Grenadier. I firmly contend, however, that there is nothing in my life I need to defend or justify to anyone (the Mrs aside) - if I want a big truck, sobeit. If "you" (not you guys, but the "yous" out there), have an issue with that, it's on "you."

And I totally agree, and probably to a fault, that I want the most capable things I can buy. It's probably foolish and costly, but I'm with you. I will never, ever, dive to 300m, but it's comforting that my watch can.

TD5-90 · Feb 16, 2023

Krabby said:
Yes, let's steer this back to the sad reality that folks are jumping off the Grenadier ship for a number of disappointing reasons. We're all friends here, which is why politics and religion don't make for good conversation.

Ok, agree.
Please see, however, that religion (barely disguised as "politics") _does_ very much influence peoples decision (and sometimes, if government-induced cost and other obstacles are considered) even the ability to afford a Gren. And so I'm still convinced that I'm reasonably On Topic in a thread about order cancellation.

Krabby · Feb 16, 2023

TD5-90 said:
Ok, agree.
Please see, however, that religion (barely disguised as "politics") _does_ very much influence peoples decision (and sometimes, if government-induced cost and other obstacles are considered) even the ability to afford a Gren. And so I'm still convinced that I'm reasonably On Topic in a thread about order cancellation.

Of course, religion and politics affect people's choices, but that's a personal thing - we each have our own views on both topics and are influenced as such. Debating politics and religion, however, has the potential to become a mess, so I think it is best avoided.

bemax · Feb 16, 2023

To said:
It is not a political forum. You have already been made aware of this by the boss. Who cares about your views on this. Not me at all.

You care enough to react. But anyway. Back to topic.

ECrider · Feb 16, 2023

I'm not cancelling my order. Lost out on a house yesterday, beaten by a bigger fish.

More money left for mods!

bemax · Feb 16, 2023

ECrider said:
I'm not cancelling my order. Lost out on a house yesterday, beaten by a bigger fish.

More money left for mods!

It seems false to congratulate. But anyway. It is good that you keep standing in the line with us!

Krabby · Feb 16, 2023

I think there could be a whole bunch of North Americans who will not go ahead with orders if the pricing is too steep. I was speaking with @Stu_Barnes about the sheer number of options here for off-road capable vehicles. They run the gamut in size, shape, ability, etc. and the price range is vast (a bare bones quad-cab 4x4 Ranger can be had for $34, 000 US ... a MB AMG G 63 STARTS at $180k and can probably hit 1/2 mil). Plus, with generally wider roads, full size pickups - which equally span from $30K to God only knows how high - are a favorite and certainly tough to beat on payload and towing.

I don't think anything competes apples to apples with the Gren, but there are plenty of options in the same ballpark. It will be interesting to see how IA price and market here. Hopefully we find out soon!

Spjnr · Feb 16, 2023

Krabby said:
I think there could be a whole bunch of North Americans who will not go ahead with orders if the pricing is too steep. I was speaking with @Stu_Barnes about the sheer number of options here for off-road capable vehicles. They run the gamut in size, shape, ability, etc. and the price range is vast (a bare bones quad-cab 4x4 Ranger can be had for $34, 000 US ... a MB AMG G 63 STARTS at $180k and can probably hit 1/2 mil). Plus, with generally wider roads, full size pickups - which equally span from $30K to God only knows how high - are a favorite and certainly tough to beat on payload and towing.

I don't think anything competes apples to apples with the Gren, but there are plenty of options in the same ballpark. It will be interesting to see how IA price and market here. Hopefully we find out soon!

Yeah we've always been jealous of your selection when it comes to 4X4s!

As far as the Grenadier goes, it could be unique enough to carve out a little niche above JL and Bronco, but below G wagon and Hummer EV.#

That being said, a 2.0 JL wrangler Rubicon in the UK will be priced on par with a station wagon Grenadier + rough/smooth.

klarie · Feb 16, 2023

Spjnr said:
Yeah we've always been jealous of your selection when it comes to 4X4s!

As far as the Grenadier goes, it could be unique enough to carve out a little niche above JL and Bronco, but below G wagon and Hummer EV.#

That being said, a 2.0 JL wrangler Rubicon in the UK will be priced on par with a station wagon Grenadier + rough/smooth.

In Germany alike. Around 80kEur.. and to be frank the Bronco is not yet available too - only announced.
The Toyota LC is there.. but rare.. a few pickups mostly Ford Ranger and VW Amarok..
A taliban tank - aka Toyota Pickup may be ordered with quite a long time to delivery and to sign not to re-export.

At the end very few real capable vehicles on the market.. - What is there on used market and registered is very much kept and cared of.. including lada niva..

Spjnr · Feb 16, 2023

klarie said:
In Germany alike. Around 80kEur.. and to be frank the Bronco is not yet available too - only announced.
The Toyota LC is there.. but rare.. a few pickups mostly Ford Ranger and VW Amarok..
A taliban tank - aka Toyota Pickup may be ordered with quite a long time to delivery and to sign not to re-export.

At the end very few real capable vehicles on the market.. - What is there on used market and registered is very much kept and cared of.. including lada niva..

The land cruiser prado we get in the UK is a very hard sell to me. Has the 2.8 4cylinder diesel, good engine but nothing special. 6 speed auto. Only tows 3 tons, and come in about 65k for a top spec variety.

Add to that it doesn't look great unless modded, and you'll always fear pulling up next to someone in a 'propper' land cruiser at the traffic lights! Don't think the toyota reliability would be enough to sway it for me personally.

Wayneos · Feb 16, 2023

klarie said:
I was in discussion on linkedin on exactly this - a guy with a few PhD..

Discussing anything with a whiny academic on LinkedIn was your first mistake. And by academic, I mean ‘authoritarian know it all’.

Deleted User Account. · Feb 16, 2023

Spjnr said:
Why would you order a solid axle ladder chassis 4x4 with recirculating ball steering, then cancel because some skinny jeans wearing car journalist who drives a prius thinks its a bit vague??

Some people's thought processes really baffle me!

For real. My pig of a heavy duty truck leaves me unconcerned about the grenadier's on road manners. Frankly, I get sleepy behind the wheel if a ride is too dialed in and comfy.

trobex · Feb 17, 2023

Krabby said:
I think there could be a whole bunch of North Americans who will not go ahead with orders if the pricing is too steep. I was speaking with @Stu_Barnes about the sheer number of options here for off-road capable vehicles. They run the gamut in size, shape, ability, etc. and the price range is vast (a bare bones quad-cab 4x4 Ranger can be had for $34, 000 US ... a MB AMG G 63 STARTS at $180k and can probably hit 1/2 mil). Plus, with generally wider roads, full size pickups - which equally span from $30K to God only knows how high - are a favorite and certainly tough to beat on payload and towing.

I don't think anything competes apples to apples with the Gren, but there are plenty of options in the same ballpark. It will be interesting to see how IA price and market here. Hopefully we find out soon!

The Jeep in the US is cheap as chips, right? What is full spec Rubicon in USD vs the GREN TrialM? Over here in AUS Jeeps are expensive ASSSSS and add the big cost on maintenance and issue that always arise with Jeep... it's hard to fathom why anyone in AUS buys jeep. 3 of my mates had jeeps over the last 5-6 years - and all 3 spent a long time in the repair yard.
EU cars here are expensive, LC300 expensive, new Toyota all series are all expensive, even the Rangers are now expensive. We have a very expensive car market and the Grenadier really for its componentry is probably $30K AUD under its actual likely sales value. But then you can sell no-name cars in AUS for $140K AUD... haha.
Why is everything so expensive!!!

PS Still waiting for my contract!

Davman · Feb 17, 2023

trobex said:
The Jeep in the US is cheap as chips, right? What is full spec Rubicon in USD vs the GREN TrialM? Over here in AUS Jeeps are expensive ASSSSS and add the big cost on maintenance and issue that always arise with Jeep... it's hard to fathom why anyone in AUS buys jeep. 3 of my mates had jeeps over the last 5-6 years - and all 3 spent a long time in the repair yard.
EU cars here are expensive, LC300 expensive, new Toyota all series are all expensive, even the Rangers are now expensive. We have a very expensive car market and the Grenadier really for its componentry is probably $30K AUD under its actual likely sales value. But then you can sell no-name cars in AUS for $140K AUD... haha.
Why is everything so expensive!!!

PS Still waiting for my contract!

I was reading The Wall Street Journal review, and it seems like the US reviewers still think the pricing of the IG is a bargain compared to what else is available in the US.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/2023-ineos-grenadier-fieldmaster-review-king-of-the-off-road-7757d654

Krabby · Feb 17, 2023

Spjnr said:
The land cruiser prado we get in the UK is a very hard sell to me. Has the 2.8 4cylinder diesel, good engine but nothing special. 6 speed auto. Only tows 3 tons, and come in about 65k for a top spec variety.

Add to that it doesn't look great unless modded, and you'll always fear pulling up next to someone in a 'propper' land cruiser at the traffic lights! Don't think the toyota reliability would be enough to sway it for me personally.

The Prado in the US is badged as a Lexus and is softened from the Euro spec to be posher inside and out. There are folks who’ve modified and tweaked to make some capable vehicles out of them. But, Lexus front ends are butt ugly!

Steveo · Feb 17, 2023

Krabby said:
The Prado in the US is badged as a Lexus and is softened from the Euro spec to be posher inside and out. There are folks who’ve modified and tweaked to make some capable vehicles out of them. But, Lexus front ends are butt ugly!

View attachment 7803402

A lot these recent cars look like they're styled by people just out of grad school.

Krabby · Feb 17, 2023

trobex said:
The Jeep in the US is cheap as chips, right? What is full spec Rubicon in USD vs the GREN TrialM? Over here in AUS Jeeps are expensive ASSSSS and add the big cost on maintenance and issue that always arise with Jeep... it's hard to fathom why anyone in AUS buys jeep. 3 of my mates had jeeps over the last 5-6 years - and all 3 spent a long time in the repair yard.
EU cars here are expensive, LC300 expensive, new Toyota all series are all expensive, even the Rangers are now expensive. We have a very expensive car market and the Grenadier really for its componentry is probably $30K AUD under its actual likely sales value. But then you can sell no-name cars in AUS for $140K AUD... haha.
Why is everything so expensive!!!

PS Still waiting for my contract!

New 4-door Rubicon starts below $50 but can quickly hit $70. But out the door at $50 and can handle plenty off-road with zero modifications.

Krabby · Feb 17, 2023

Steveo said:
A lot these recent cars look like they're styled by people just out of grad school.

The entire design ethos of Lexus has been fugly for years. A big gaping black hole of hourglass shaped plastic at the front.

trobex · Feb 17, 2023

Krabby said:
New 4-door Rubicon starts below $50 but can quickly hit $70. But out the door at $50 and can handle plenty off-road with zero modifications.

My god - entry level Rubicon here (stock) is $80K AUD... for $27K more you get a Gren Trialmaster... with some specs added in.
The GREN here will compete directly against the LC300 in terms of trim/bit features but the LC300 is old tech through and through with a slightly newer V6 diesel... which is not nearly as good as the B57. LC300 GXL starts at what $100K with no addons, no bar, just trim seats and rubber floor mats!... GREN will be a smash hit in AUS, no matter its wiper or footrest issues!!!

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Europe Order cancelled

klarie

Krabby

Global Grenadier 76

TD5-90

Krabby

Global Grenadier 76

bemax

ECrider

bemax

Krabby

Global Grenadier 76

Spjnr

klarie

Spjnr

Wayneos

Deleted User Account.

trobex

Davman

Krabby

Global Grenadier 76

Steveo

Global Grenadier #1009

Krabby

Global Grenadier 76

Krabby

Global Grenadier 76

trobex

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