The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Wheel rim size

Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
2,423
Here is a description of various tire specifications:
1. Speed
2. Temperature
3. Traction
4. Speed
5. Load Index
6. Load Range

Speed Rating

How fast are you really going to go in your vehicle? You should never exceed the speed rating of a tire - nor should you be anywhere near the speed rating for a tire.

The speed rating of the tire is determined in a laboratory environment usually at a moderate ambient temperature. This does not factor in load due to cornering, nor heat due to hot asphalt or long periods of driving, nor inflation pressure that is not at the recommended level. Nor does a high rating rule out a defective tire. When you drive near or over the speed rating of a tire you are risking your life because there are always factors that cannot be taken into account. Car & Driver Editor Don Schroeder's life ended tragically as a result of high speed tire failure (second story on page).

As it turns out though, the higher the tire speed rating, the less likely you will have catastrophic sidewall or tread failure. It makes sense that higher speed-rated tires hold up better than lower speed-rated tires. This is not to say that you can overload a tire safely, or that you can safely have a blowout at 200 miles-per-hour - this just means that if a failure does occur at normal speeds, higher speed-rated tires generally handle the failure better.

The speed rating indicates the maximum speed (miles per hour) the tire is rated under normal conditions. The ratings are as follows:

M — 81
N — 87
P — 93
Q — 100
R — 106
S — 112
T — 118
H — 130
V — 149
W — 168
Y — 186

Below is a list of speed ratings along with the corresponding speeds they represent. Remember, the speeds are test speeds, not recommended speeds.

B - Up to 31 mph

C - Up to 37 mph

D - Up to 40 mph

E - Up to 43 mph

F - Up to 50 mph

G - Up to 56 mph

J - Up to 62 mph

K - Up to 68 mph

L - Up to 75 mph

M - Up to 81 mph

N - Up to 87 mph

P - Up to 94 mph

Q - Up to 100 mph

R - Up to 106 mph

S - Up to 112 mph

T - Up to 118 mph

U - Up to 124 mph

H - Up to 130 mph

V - Up to 149 mph

W - Up to 168 mph

Y - Up to 186 mph

Z - 149 mph and over

Speed ratings vary greatly depending on the type of tire. For example, Q-ratings are typical among off-road tires. R-ratings are typical for average passenger tires. T-ratings are typical for performance tires.

Provide for a 15-20% buffer and you should be OK. In other words, If you have a Q-rated tire, your sustained speed should not exceed 80-85 mph (unloaded) and less if you are carrying a significant load. (My Vanagon barely does 70, so a Q-rated tire is alright for my application.)

If you have a Porsche, and your maximum sustained speed is 135 mph, then you should not consider anything less than a W-rated tire. (Of course, this is merely an example and not advice to travel that fast.)

Again, the speed rating is determined at on an unloaded (unstressed) tire at a moderate ambient temperature. With that in mind, the next spec to take a look at is temperature.

Temperature Rating

Temperature and traction are probably the least marketed specifications for tires. However, in hotter climates, you should be especially concerned with temperature ratings.

The temperature rating indicates how well the tire handles heat (including how well the tire dissipates heat). There are three ratings:

A — best
B — intermediate
C — acceptable

Traveling long distances in hot weather, at a high-rate of speed, is very difficult on tires. Consider how many times you have seen a family on vacation in summer - with dad hauling down the highway with the wagon loaded down with the gear. This is a common situation that many times results in catastrophic tire failure.

Consider, also, how much more often you see semi-trailer tire tread on the highway during the summer. Luckily those big rigs have more than four tires.

Traction Rating

In wetter climates, the traction specifications may be more important than temperature.

The traction rating indicates how well a tire grips the road surface. This is an overall (balanced) rating for both dry and wet conditions. Tires are rated:

AA – best
A – better
B – good
C – acceptable
What is interesting is that many times, a tire's traction rating will be sold as how well the tire handles in wet weather. This isn't always the case - as the traction rating is a combined score. You could have an A-rated tire that performs excellent in dry weather, and acceptable in wet.

For most car owners, speed, temperature and traction are the most important specifications to consider.

Now we get to the important specifications for heavy (or top-heavy) vehicles - load index and load range.

Load Ratings

There are two load ratings: (1) Load Index, and (2) Load Range

The load index indicates the maximum weight that a tire can accommodate vertically at a given PSI (pounds per square inch). Typically, the load index of the tires for passenger cars and light trucks range from 80 to 100.

Load Index Pounds Kilograms
71 761 345 91 1356 615
72 783 355 92 1389 630
73 805 365 93 1433 650
74 827 375 94 1477 670
75 853 387 95 1521 690
76 882 400 96 1565 710
77 908 412 97 1609 730
78 937 425 98 1653 750
79 963 437 99 1709 775
80 992 450 100 1764 800
81 1019 462 101 1819 825
82 1047 475 102 1874 850
83 1074 487 103 1929 875
84 1102 500 104 1984 900
85 1135 515 105 2039 925
86 1168 530 106 2094 950
87 1201 545 107 2149 975
88 1235 560 108 2205 1000
89 1279 580 109 2271 1030
90 1323 600 110 2337 1060

Sources: Tire Rack Tire Tech - Speed and Load Rating, and Yokohama - Reading Your Tire

Keep in mind that load ratings are determined using an applied vertical force against a tire under laboratory conditions (usually 65 ambient degrees). The heat rating for the tire can affect the maximum load the tire can handle at a given temperature.

You will see often the load index as a combination of Load and Speed, such as 97T. This indicates that the tire is rated for 1609 lbs. at a maximum of 118 mph. However consider that at that rate of speed, if you were to need to perform an emergency maneuver, you could easily exceed the load index of the tire.

Remember, the load index is how much weight you can put on top of your tires.

Load Range

Load Range is another way of indicating the ability of a tire to handle stress and weight. This time, we are indicating how much load can be placed on the tire horizontally. Often, these tires are associated with towing because the back end of the car tends to wallow while towing a trailer. In other words, you are exerting stress on the tire from side-to-side.

While there is no industry-wide definition of ply rating, truck tires are frequently marked with ply rating and equivalent Load Range. These markings are used to identify the load and inflation limits of that particular tire, when used in a specific type of service:

Load Range Ply Rating
A 2
B 4
C 6
D 8
E 10
F 12
G 14
H 16
J 18
K 20
L 22
M 24
N 26


Source: Bridgestone/Firestone North America, Sizes and Classifications

From me (stickshifter):
The Load Range for a mid-size SUV or light truck is usually a C-rated tire. But many off-roaders will move up to a D or even an E - not necessarily to get greater load-carrying capacity, but to get the thicker sidewalls that come on the D and E tires. A thicker sidewall will be more resistant to punctures from rocks, sticks, etc. There are disadvantages to the D and E tires, however. These include greater weight (so slower acceleration, longer braking distance, and worse fuel economy), and a rougher ride.

The Load Range for a heavy duty truck (Ford F-250, Ram 2500, etc.) is E or F (depending on the model, and its capacities). These tires can carry heavy payload, or tow heavy trailers due to their heavier construction.

Final note on load range: back in the day, a 10-ply tire had 10 plys, an 8-ply tire had 8 plys, etc. Since then, tire construction has changed, and that is no longer the case. So, while an E-rated tire can carry a heavier load than a D-rated tire, it does not necessarily have more plys, it is just a stronger construction. They keep the ply ratings alongside the letter-ratings as an artifact of a previous system of rating tire-strength. In other words, an E-rated tire is equivalent to what used to be a 10-ply tire.
 
Last edited:

Logsplitter

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
2,812
Reaction score
10,061
Location
🇬🇧
Thanks again. Useful insight. So the Grenadier is coming with a D load rating 8 ply tyre 🤔
 

Logsplitter

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
2,812
Reaction score
10,061
Location
🇬🇧
Just been checking over the tyre size and ply ratings again and came up with this for the 17” rim with BFG,s as per brochure which when I checked is a 10 ply rating is that correct 🤔 17” RIM - LT265/70R17 121/118S
35CDDE7B-18EA-49FE-9ED9-2B01437755FA.png
487D9730-3C67-4766-980B-821F042A2115.png
 
Local time
5:04 AM
Joined
Dec 25, 2022
Messages
175
Reaction score
328
Location
Donegal
Could be right, used to be 8PR on 16". "Only" GBP 314..like that
 

Logsplitter

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
2,812
Reaction score
10,061
Location
🇬🇧
Could be right, used to be 8PR on 16". "Only" GBP 314..like that
Yes quite pricey. The last tyres I purchased just over a year ago were Falken Wildpeak A/T 235/85 r16 for my defender came in at around £150 each for five fitted, did get a deal on them though 👍🏼
 
Local time
5:04 AM
Joined
Dec 25, 2022
Messages
175
Reaction score
328
Location
Donegal
Yes quite pricey. The last tyres I purchased just over a year ago were Falken Wildpeak A/T 235/85 r16 for my defender came in at around £150 each for five fitted, did get a deal on them though 👍🏼

You could drive across to France or Belgium for a set of five, bring Calvados and Champagne back or Gaufres Liegeois and eat some goose fat fried chips and return with enough savings for a nice dinner @ Bowleys at The Plough on the way back...worth considering, the wife will love it, supposedly.

The alternative used to be the Billing or Peterborough shows..best deals on 4x4 tires, ever..
 
Last edited:

Logsplitter

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
2,812
Reaction score
10,061
Location
🇬🇧
This picture originally posted on 28th by @Deepblue would confirm that the tyres are LT265/70R17 121/118S as per the brochure which checks out at a 10ply rating on the 17” rims. Not sure on the 18” but think that’s an 8ply rating.
ECB34F80-7E94-4DD5-A1E9-A6202C89C17D.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: PBD
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
2,423
Just been checking over the tyre size and ply ratings again and came up with this for the 17” rim with BFG,s as per brochure which when I checked is a 10 ply rating is that correct 🤔 17” RIM - LT265/70R17 121/118S
View attachment 7802444View attachment 7802445

No, I do not believe that to be correct. But I'm not 100% certain.

Video of the Grenadier indicates that the BFG KO2 being used has a Load Rating of D, which is equivalent to an 8-ply rated tire. But maybe there are different tires for different wheel sizes (17-inch wheels vs 18-inch wheels) - I don't know.

The Load Rating of E is the one that is equivalent to a 10-ply tire, but I don't think we're getting the E-rated tires.

Below is a photo of the BFG KO2 on the Grenadier, then a table of Load Ratings and their "ply" equivalents, and then a screen shot from a website I have recommended previously as a good source of data on various tires.

Grenadier_41.jpg


Load Range Ply Rating
A 2
B 4
C 6
D 8
E 10
F 12

Below is a screenshot with the different versions of the KO2 in the relevant size. NOTE: there are four different KO2s in this size. If the photo is accurate, then the tire that comes with the Grenadier is the second one on this list - which is the only one with a Load Rating of D.

BFG_KO2_265_70_17.png


Source: https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2.htm
 

Logsplitter

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
2,812
Reaction score
10,061
Location
🇬🇧
The photo shows an 18” rim and the second tyre on the list is a 118/115S D RWL
I’m basing my understanding on the fact I can’t find an 8 ply rating of the size 17” RIM - LT265/70R17 121/118S in the U.K. They must be available in the EU I suppose
F95B07E8-6F77-4BB0-ACED-5888E6E1D044.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: PBD
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
2,423
Ahhh, I understand now. It is true, that D-rated tires are harder to find. Most tires for SUVs and trucks are either C (for midsize vehicles), or E (for heavy duty vehicles, or even F for the heavy duty trucks with high GVWR). A drawback to having D-tires is that it is much harder to find an exact match if you need to replace a single tire.

Personally, I'd be happy if the Grenadier came on E-rated tires. I am familiar with the downsides of an E-rated tire, but they don't bother me. I prefer the thicker side wall for off-road driving, as I've had punctures with C-rated tires, but my E-rated tires hold up really well. I've never owned a D-rated tire. In addition to off-road use, I like the thicker sidewalls on road, as they feel firmer when taking corners. This is especially relevant when you get into the larger tires. A 35-inch tire that is C-rated feels really squishy when taking corners, and even though I'm not trying to race my off-road rigs, I don't like it.

In my opinion, Ineos is making a good choice, though, not equipping the truck with C-rated tires. The weight of the vehicle and its payload capacity (i.e. its GVWR) call for something more than C, so I think they landed on D, because E-rated tires can feel overly firm - especially in a vehicle with a shorter wheelbase. Going over bumps in a big pickup truck is a smoother experience than going over the same bumps in a short wheelbase vehicle (holding constant tire size and Load Rating). Add in the fact that the Grenadier isn't in the same GVWR as a heavy duty truck, and I think that a lot of people would complain about E-rated tires on the Grenadier.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the actual tires that come on the Grenadier vary by market. If D-rated tires are not available in the UK, I can't imagine Ineos selling the vehicle with D-rated tires.
 
Last edited:

IG_in_AZ

Global Grenadiers #1372
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
9:04 PM
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Messages
782
Reaction score
1,717
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
Gents, if you notice the other numbers in the tire size, they correlate with the load ranges. Per the Ineos brochure and the screen capture, you're all correct. You're just not comparing the same size tires with the same size rims.

The 17" BGF KO2 is load range E / 10-ply (121/118S). The 18" BFG KO2 is Load Range D / 8-ply (117/114S).
 
Local time
5:04 AM
Joined
Dec 25, 2022
Messages
175
Reaction score
328
Location
Donegal
No, I do not believe that to be correct. But I'm not 100% certain.

Video of the Grenadier indicates that the BFG KO2 being used has a Load Rating of D, which is equivalent to an 8-ply rated tire. But maybe there are different tires for different wheel sizes (17-inch wheels vs 18-inch wheels) - I don't know.

The Load Rating of E is the one that is equivalent to a 10-ply tire, but I don't think we're getting the E-rated tires.

Below is a photo of the BFG KO2 on the Grenadier, then a table of Load Ratings and their "ply" equivalents, and then a screen shot from a website I have recommended previously as a good source of data on various tires.

View attachment 7802467

Load Range Ply Rating
A 2
B 4
C 6
D 8
E 10
F 12

Below is a screenshot with the different versions of the KO2 in the relevant size. NOTE: there are four different KO2s in this size. If the photo is accurate, then the tire that comes with the Grenadier is the second one on this list - which is the only one with a Load Rating of D.

View attachment 7802468

Source: https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2.htm

I don't think there is a standard correlation between ply and load rating. The first table above (D=10) might be correct for BFG AT but cannot be applied to all tires of all manufacturers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PBD

DCPU

Grenadier Owner
Local time
4:04 AM
Joined
Jul 27, 2022
Messages
6,005
Reaction score
13,343
Back
Top Bottom