Trailer Electrics

frankkk · Jan 7, 2023

Here is the rating of the "full size NATO socke/plug, 2pin":

MIL: 100A cont., 150A overload
AMP: 110A cont., 200A overload
Civilian (OEM supplier): 500A cont., 1000A overload

Not getting too senile after all, just a bit more than 4 x..

)

frankkk · Jan 7, 2023

emax said:
Would like to see a jump start of the Grenadier @ 0 °C over this plug.

No probs, done it many times..just come along next winter with the Grenadier, I´ll buy you a drink afterwards..

CountyV8 · Jan 7, 2023

Thought everyone used a NOCO now

emax · Jan 7, 2023

frankkk said:
lots of winching over 5 minutes or so

Yes, agree. That's what I think it's made for.

Jump starting inrush is much higher, and it's operating current might be as well.

But it's all guessing. The wiring will however be a matter of fact: if the car "decides', then it's the car which decides.

We'll see.

DCPU · Jan 7, 2023

CountyV8 said:
Thought everyone used a NOCO now

but what are the size of the cables on them...

DCPU · Jan 7, 2023

frankkk said:
Advantage: plug acts as safety to disconnect power and no losses through extra wiring or solenoids

Yes, nice and simple no need for added complexity.

frankkk said:
pretty much like an Anderson socket, just don't like the plastic of that, personally.

I'd take the the plastic of a genuine Anderson connector over what this looks like (admittedly I've only seen a photo but it looks like an Alibaba special...):

frankkk said:
The NATO plug/socket worked a treat for me for over 10 years in Africa. The universal use of the socket in all (NATO)armies and in Africa, makes it the more attractive in my book. Military equipment is durable and interesting for general purpose use outdoors, available at reasonable prices new and second hand.

You'll have to share your sources for that.

frankkk · Jan 8, 2023

DCPU said:
Yes, nice and simple no need for added complexity.

I'd take the the plastic of a genuine Anderson connector over what this looks like (admittedly I've only seen a photo but it looks like an Alibaba special...):
View attachment 7799742

You'll have to share your sources for that.

Sure, but it’s a bit trickier in times of war..-

)..not so much surplus and higher demand. The UK summer shows for 4x4 enthusiasts are best. They are hosted by the different mags, LRI, LRO, LRW and LRM..The 2day jumble at Malvern is good too..Beltring of course but dunno the actual prices there, might be inflated. Do these places sound familiar or is it a different part of the world you are looking 4 ?

frankkk · Jan 8, 2023

Oh, sorry..should read "used to be" instead of "are"..there hasn't been much in regard of shows for the past three summers..it has yet to be seen, whether the shows regain their pre-pandemic popularity. Beltring probably will, it's pretty unique, the others, not too sure. Consumer confidence will play a role too, I guess.

DCPU · Jan 8, 2023

Thanks ~ Beltring is/was the War & Peace Show?

frankkk · Jan 8, 2023

DCPU said:
Thanks ~ Beltring is/was the War & Peace Show?

Ts´it..@ the Hop Farm..been there forever, from what I remember

TheDocAUS · Apr 1, 2023

Hicarus said:
More trawling. Does anyone have any ideas on what this connection is and is for?
Is this the Euro Plug referred to in other threads?
View attachment 7799589

To supply power to a trailer or caravan being towed to charge any on onboard batteries they are carrying. INEOS are using a two pin NATO plug for the power.

On the other side of the tow hitch is a 13 pin Euro style plug to control the blinkers, stop lights, etc on said trailer or caravan.

This will cause some challenges for Australian users. First, we almost exclusively use 50amp Anderson plugs to supply power to the trailer or caravan (sometimes the larger 250amp version), not NATO plugs. I am struggling to even find a NATO plug on sale in Australia to make my own NATO to Anderson plug adapter. I have raised the issue with INEOS Australia. (This comes close but has been discontinued).

Second, in Australia the 13 pin Euro plug is not widely used, but I could source an adapter from the 13 pin Euro plug to the 7 pin flat style commonly used in Australia.

DenisM · Apr 1, 2023

@TheDocAUS "right on the money" to coin a phrase! The 'red' connector on the discontinued NATO adapter shown, is not compatible with the normal 'grey' coloured Anderson-style connector... If there's no adaption by Ineos for the local market, I can envisage a pleasant afternoon with

, wire strippers, pliers and a screw driver changing supplied plugs to meet local requirements!
I note the standard Euro 13 pin wiring has one pin designated as "constant live feed", another designated as "not used", while another is labelled "fridge".... The 12 pin Narva sold in Aus. can be wired to include a heavier gauge cable to feed the electric trailer brakes....
I wired a previous vehicle with both 7 and 12 pin sockets depending on whether it was the camper trailer or the 'every day' box trailer....

Kb6tho · Apr 1, 2023

Had a 404 UNIMOG back in the day… it used a NATO plug and auxiliary generator for jump starting (or powering the comm shelter)… 24v electrics therefore lower current draw than 12v… it worked!

Rok_Dr · Apr 1, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
To supply power to a trailer or caravan being towed to charge any on onboard batteries they are carrying. INEOS are using a two pin NATO plug for the power.

On the other side of the tow hitch is a 13 pin Euro style plug to control the blinkers, stop lights, etc on said trailer or caravan.

This will cause some challenges for Australian users. First, we almost exclusively use 50amp Anderson plugs to supply power to the trailer or caravan (sometimes the larger 250amp version), not NATO plugs. I am struggling to even find a NATO plug on sale in Australia to make my own NATO to Anderson plug adapter. I have raised the issue with INEOS Australia. (This comes close but has been discontinued).

Second, in Australia the 13 pin Euro plug is not widely used, but I could source an adapter from the 13 pin Euro plug to the 7 pin flat style commonly used in Australia.

Yes the NATO 2 pin and 13 pin trailer plugs are decidedly non standard for Australia. It's something I flagged with both Ineos in the UK and the local Ineos guys in Perth last November. Feed back from Ineos UK was they thought the NATO Plug on the vehicle used 35mm² wiring terminals. I've also raised the matter (along with the Redarc electric brake controller) with my local dealer and they are looking at the feasibility of supplying accessory adaptors..... at least for the 13pin trailer plug.

Some comments and observations regarding the plugs and changing them or making adaptors.

The NATO plug and wiring is designed to power the removable winch which according the the accessories brochure draws a load of between 65 and 150 amps.
The small SB 50 Anderson Plug, commonly used for charging trailer house batteries is only rated to 50 amps.
The maximum diameter wire the SB50 Anderson plug pins can accept is 6AWG or 13.3mm². This is significantly smaller than 35mm².
So there will be problems replacing the NATO plug as the anderson plug has a lower power rating and the pins may be too small to accept the vehicle wiring.
If Ineos can't sort out a NATO-Anderson plug adaptor, I'm planning to get one made up and will include an inline 50 amp fuse in the adaptor to protect the Anderson plug and trailer wiring.
For the 13 pin Euro plug both Hella and Nava make adaptors. Just need to ensure that the pin Ineos uses for the electric brakes is wired correctly. Electric brakes aren't used in Europe, so there is no pin allocated in the wiring standard for them.

Cheers
Steve

Clark Kent · Apr 1, 2023

For Australian buyers, the 2-pole male NATO plug is available from CT ALS in Brisbane.
ELKE MPN 2824-51.00
A$180.12 ex GST.

I will swap the 50A Anderson on my camper for a NATO plug and leave the Grenadier electrical system and warranty intact. I don't tow anything else that needs power so that's the most reliable solution for me.

Elke NATO Plug 2 Pole Male Contacts 50mm2 OLV GRN with Screw Ring

TheDocAUS · Apr 1, 2023

Donkadonk said:
For Australian buyers, the 2-pole male NATO plug is available from CT ALS in Brisbane.
ELKE MPN 2824-51.00
A$180.12 ex GST.

I will swap the 50A Anderson on my camper for a NATO plug and leave the Grenadier electrical system and warranty intact. I don't tow anything else that needs power so that's the most reliable solution for me.

Elke NATO Plug 2 Pole Male Contacts 50mm2 OLV GRN with Screw Ring

Thanks for that, I have been looking for days for a NATO plug in Australia with zero success. I even looked on that site, obviously very poorly.

Rok_Dr · Apr 1, 2023

Donkadonk said:
For Australian buyers, the 2-pole male NATO plug is available from CT ALS in Brisbane.
ELKE MPN 2824-51.00
A$180.12 ex GST.

I will swap the 50A Anderson on my camper for a NATO plug and leave the Grenadier electrical system and warranty intact. I don't tow anything else that needs power so that's the most reliable solution for me.

Elke NATO Plug 2 Pole Male Contacts 50mm2 OLV GRN with Screw Ring

Thanks as well!

TheDocAUS · Apr 1, 2023

If you have to make your own NATO to Anderson plug adapter I have written up some guides on Anderson plug pitfalls and crimping generally. Aimed at Australian users mostly, as it suggest tools to buy and sources of Anderson plugs, copper wire, terminals etc. plus good techniques to make good crimps.

TheDocAUS · Apr 1, 2023

Another solution is to run a new cable from the service or aux battery (perhaps from one of the busbars) and find a place near the tow hitch to attach the Anderson plug. Connect the trailer to that Anderson plug.

So you would have an Anderson plug, NATO plug and 13 pin Euro style plug.

CountyV8 · Apr 1, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
Another solution is to run a new cable from the service or aux battery (perhaps from one of the busbars) and find a place near the tow hitch to attach the Anderson plug. Connect the trailer to that Anderson plug.

So you would have an Anderson plug, NATO plug and 13 pin Euro style plug.

NATO because it screws shut has a higher amp rating and is robust possibly use it for jump starting winching etc etc

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